bring back rev

[misto]

if its traitor revs vs traitor heads then its almost just spy mode again, a traitor vs traitor battlezone. if its traitor heads vs nontraitor revs, its almost just regular traitor mode, but with all players in head positions miraculously rolling traitor.

---

how about reduce or remove the telecrystals that rev heads get to use to call in deadly goodies, will this help give the heads enough bravery to stroll down to qm to order some extra guns?

will the game rules need to be rewritten to give forgiveness clauses relating to rev mode and suspected revolutions in other rounds in order to help further embolden the station heads into actually using their authority and the good resources at their disposal?

thats the biggest fear i smell, really. not actually fear of getting ganked, because being slaughtered is a regular occurrence ingame, but a fear, on the part of the heads, of treading on the rules and getting in trouble out of game. most players already avoid such positions of responsibility - too much duty, too few perks!

[Crazyabe]

How about In Rev, the (Normal) heads and a random number of Sec officers are all Syndicate agents without the PDAs. the Heads have the Missions of "Being as Horrible Leaders as Possible" and a general "Keep X Underlings alive" While the traitor secs get a general Licence to be Cruel. Rev heads are Considered Nanotrasen Agents who have been Kept who are Alerted to being such after 25-30 mins, and of course gain access to a Nanotrasen Variation on the Syndicate PDA program.
Then The rev heads can be any chosen form all Nontraitors whom are not braindead.

[lambskin]

I guess I should have said "antagonist", not traitor. I believe the Heads should have some kind of rules to allow them to freely fight crewmembers even on a light belief that they are revolutionaries. All it would take is a rule to stop them from simply rampaging at roundstart. I also don't believe they should get a traitor PDA, since they already have all access. Maybe give all heads access to the armoury in a rev round?

[Frank_Stein]

I like the idea of there being a reward and punishment feature random killing.

If the heads are antags, killing non revs should provide resources for the rev leaders. Rev leaders killing civilians increases the difficulty of NT response team

[misto]

perhaps it could be handled kind of like a shuttle call. in any round, the living station heads and maybe ai may confer and insert their ids and enter their secret passcodes or whatever, and thus they and security send for and receive authorization from centcom to crack down violently on a suspected revolution, freeing them of fears of ooc punishment for collateral damage, effectively changing their rules mid-round much like how the ai can be subject to law changes mid-round

the more heads present/participating when they send their authorization request, the fewer minutes they must wait to receive confirmation of authorization.

should it be conducted in secret? or should there be a big public announcement be made instructing crew to stay where they are and co-operate with interrogators?

since this can be done in any round, it might be used as a cover for traitorous slaughter or a changeling's feeding, but could also set too many people on high alert and sensible antags should be wary of the option

[babayetu83]

why all this stuff about increasing/decreasing/whatever tc amounts when a good solution to the heads just falling over like dominos would be to just ensure that there'd be at least 4 or 5 security officers so instead of it being 5v15-20 it'd be 10v15-20

[misto]

and with a supply loyalty implants they could deputize more, and using qm or taking over mechanics they can arm them.

my god, and there are implant guns now. you dont even need to be near someone to slap loyalty implants into them

[atamusvaleo]

Double/Triple posting this because I think it solves the issues everyone is bringing up. With important points in bold.

"To reiterate my point made on the rev thread. I would rather the heads and sec(probably just heads though) start off as miscreants with the objective to be cruel and brutal in their treatment of subordinates and crew. Then have a rev leader or two appointed a few minutes in. Remove the R for regular rev members, letting only Revheads see the R over fellow revs, but still let rev members see who the heads are. This gives NT Heads the opportunity to go undercover with the masses and have a fighting chance. Someone had the idea for a clothing item spawner for Revheads that I think could be wonderful." -- Me

Miscreant role means heads can't just murderbone right away because they aren't a true traitor. Also, this gives time for the crew to really work up grudges or grievances with particular heads. (Adds a bit of flavor to things) When shit hits the fan, you can have no qualms with running down the hall stun batoning everyone in sight if that's what it comes to.

Removing the R means heads can just dump their ID and uniform to hide in plain sight and get the jump on Revs. Revheads also become more important in their role as leaders. Now they can coordinate attacks, sweeping departments and dragging workers into the halls to be converted. Stops mobs from forming on their own and just beating any non-revs senseless.

Clothing spawner: maybe some hats or bandanas? Easily identifiable and able to be removed from that assistant whose head you smashed in to make others overlook that you're still wearing the RD's uniform under that labcoat.

The issues people seem to be having are (1) heads hiding in space/lockers; (2) heads are unable to tell who is a rev while revs know exactly who is and isn't on their team; (3) heads can't be mean without provocation. I think I touched on all of those points.

[New525]

snip

This is a reasonable solution

[Dr Zoidcrab]

For the loyalist team idea, how about when the rev team reaches a certain size a command update is received about a revolution being detected and the heads/sec/loyalty implanted players get a loyalist team indicator that everyone can see. The revs would have a chance to take out the heads stealthily, but wouldnt be able to just brainwash the entire crew before the heads even know theres a revolution. The neutral crew would be allowed to fight back if the loyalists try to purge them.

Also please make it so that the shuttle can be called normally, and have a win condition for revs stopping heads escaping or something.

[Superlagg]

After a while, you can safely assume that anyone who isnt sec or a head is a rev, and then it turns into ass day.

[misto]

some kind of universal declaration of forgiveness for slaying people as a non-antag will need to be put in no matter what, i think. it can be delivered partway into the round if we are still worried about giving away the secrecy of whats happening too early.

not just for the loyalists and loyalist heads, but also for non-revd crew mistaken for revs and about to be slaughtered by loyalists. it will only be natural for them to take steps to defend themselves, and its not like they will check the manifest and the id of the person assaulting them to find out if they should just surrender and die so as to not indirectly aid revs by resisting and injuring, possibly slaying loyalists.

are beatings still the main way to deconvert people? i uh, i recommend we begin considering alternatives

[ferriswheel1]

some kind of universal declaration of forgiveness for slaying people as a non-antag will need to be put in no matter what, i think. it can be delivered partway into the round if we are still worried about giving away the secrecy of whats happening too early.

not just for the loyalists and loyalist heads, but also for non-revd crew mistaken for revs and about to be slaughtered by loyalists. it will only be natural for them to take steps to defend themselves, and its not like they will check the manifest and the id of the person assaulting them to find out if they should just surrender and die so as to not indirectly aid revs by resisting and injuring, possibly slaying loyalists.

are beatings still the main way to deconvert people? i uh, i recommend we begin considering alternatives

Loyalty implants? I imagine any loyalists will be implanting people like crazy if they're aware and have half a brain.

[misto]

what the supply of loyalty implants like? can they be copied at mechanics? can more of them be ordered at qm?

speaking of mechanics, its a major resource, isnt it. the loyalist heads should really consider taking it over or at least ordering the ai to bolt the place and cut the power if they can't. too bad they routinely forget they have an omniscient ai they can use in favor of cowering in a hidey hole

they should also conider giving red uniforms to their loyalty implanted people or at least give them a special icon on the SEC HUD GLASSES because god knows security cant memorize every loyalty implanted person

IMPORTANT GOOD IDEA LOOK --> you know, the sec hud glasses could be expanded into a powerful tool for keeping track of who's who <-- GREAT IDEA FROM MISTO

they should also really consider breaking out the riot control sleeping gas more often

[zcamperz]

what the supply of loyalty implants like? can they be copied at mechanics? can more of them be ordered at qm?

speaking of mechanics, its a major resource, isnt it. the loyalist heads should really consider taking it over or at least ordering the ai to bolt the place and cut the power if they can't. too bad they routinely forget they have an omniscient ai they can use in favor of cowering in a hidey hole

they should also conider giving red uniforms to their loyalty implanted people or at least give them a special icon on the SEC HUD GLASSES because god knows security cant memorize every loyalty implanted person

IMPORTANT GOOD IDEA LOOK --> you know, the sec hud glasses could be expanded into a powerful tool for keeping track of who's who <-- GREAT IDEA FROM MISTO

they should also really consider breaking out the riot control sleeping gas more often

yes misto good idea