Makeshift weapons

[Nnystyxx]

actually making something takes time, organization, access, pre-planning and so on
like I don't expect someone with makeshift weapons to be able to take sec unless they're in numbers or extremely lucky, because sec has powerful, consistent weapons and about 3 different ways at any given time to stun you, effectively rendering you moot

this is more "how do I stop some mean mother hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind"
like when you're getting chased by a fuckin vampire or something or an antag who's dumb/determined enough to run straight into a crowded place to kill you, any way to protect yourself, retaliate, or even burn the guy slightly for attacking you (much less get anywhere near stunning/killing him) would be a lot better I feel

most people don't have the option of shitting out a whole armory as soon as there's an identified threat leaving a lot of people very vulnerable to whatever tosspot bumbles across them unless they're lucky enough to bang him with a toolbox just right and then HIS game is over instead

edit: also worth noting throwables/shitty guns would help damper the fact that several antagonists have nigh guaranteed ways to absolutely skullfuck you if you get close to them for even a millisecond (see: pens/injectors/eswords, stings, ei nath, flash glare/hypnosis shit)

[Arborinus]

I would like more improvised options for the crew during Nuke rounds. Especially something ranged, I would say that 90% of crew deaths during nuke rounds is trying to walk in with whatever melee weapon or a dinky phaser and getting picked off right away.

One thing I can think of that wouldn't unbalance things would be a cable coil throwing net, like the ones from Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. In normal rounds they would be useless since they don't stun and people could break out of them easily, but in a nuke firefight the extra second you can get from netting a syndie would make a huge difference.

[Nnystyxx]

I would like more improvised options for the crew during Nuke rounds. Especially something ranged, I would say that 90% of crew deaths during nuke rounds is trying to walk in with whatever melee weapon or a dinky phaser and getting picked off right away.

One thing I can think of that wouldn't unbalance things would be a cable coil throwing net, like the ones from Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. In normal rounds they would be useless since they don't stun and people could break out of them easily, but in a nuke firefight the extra second you can get from netting a syndie would make a huge difference.

Nuke, or: You Will Only Win If The Ops Are Retarded (And Probably Gas Themselves)
(or if security shits out enough armor, or science enough bombs (unless either of these is the target) to kill the ops)

Seriously what is the crew supposed to even do when like 5 or 6 guys plant themselves in an area and all have revolvers/spackers/the fucking wowi'mdead RPG? At this point it's not disposing of the nuke that's the problem, it's getting within 100 meters of it before you get nailed by a Spacker and drop into crit

[Vitatroll]

The three most potent anti-nuke weapons I have are meth, water and booze.

Load up on Robust-eez (or use hypos), fill an extinguisher with water, and get drunk enough to do flips into people. That's really all your average staff assistant needs for M.A.D. success.

I would like the Blackjack though, in the way Frank described. Though the thought of a blackjack doing no damage is a bit odd, it works in a gameplay sense. Beyond that SS13 is a place where you staple arms back on and walk away from tanking room-sized meteors with your face.

[Sundance]

Nuke, or: You Will Only Win If The Ops Are Retarded (And Probably Gas Themselves)
(or if security shits out enough armor, or science enough bombs (unless either of these is the target) to kill the ops)

Seriously what is the crew supposed to even do when like 5 or 6 guys plant themselves in an area and all have revolvers/spackers/the fucking wowi'mdead RPG? At this point it's not disposing of the nuke that's the problem, it's getting within 100 meters of it before you get nailed by a Spacker and drop into crit

Funnily enough the things you've mentioned there isn't the exact problem with nuke ops (I'm using the word problem lightly, I think as it stands nuke ops is a great gamemode, but under a fine microscope there are things that need tweaking)

It's the one dude who grabs ALL the donk pockets and then combines that with a rpg/shotgun.
Don't believe me? Think about it for a second:
Defending a spot with rapid regenerating health and stamina combined with a delete or maim upon impact gun with 4-5 other nuke ops is not fair.  It's literally worse than giving them stimpacks, at least they don't grant healing.
Any landslide victory i've seen on the nuke ops side is because of this tactic. The latter victories fall into nuke ops actually planning and being smart.

Topic for another thread though..

[Grek]

The usual trouble I see vs Nuke Ops is you have 8 minutes to get tools, internals, space suits and weapons; successfully assault the nuke and take it out. Just charging in your regular outfit doesn't really work vs nuke ops very well because they all have armoured space suits and you (probably) don't.

[BBEG]

The usual trouble I see vs Nuke Ops is you have 8 minutes to get tools, internals, space suits and weapons; successfully assault the nuke and take it out. Just charging in your regular outfit doesn't really work vs nuke ops very well because they all have armoured space suits and you (probably) don't.

this is of course forgetting the occasional kamikazi scientist in which case it does'int matter what you where as long as you can get close enough

[Frank_Stein]

I do think the amount of rockets should probably be dropped to maybe, 3. One for each RPG and a spare. 

Back on topic, I also really like that cable net as another non-lethal option. If it just slowed you down, would be a nice for dealing with melee weapons people chasing you. 

How about more makeshift traps? Fill a bucket up with something nasty and place it above a door. Attach paint cans to wires for more Home Alone shenanigans

[amaranthineApocalypse]

I do think the amount of rockets should probably be dropped to maybe, 3. One for each RPG and a spare. 

Back on topic, I also really like that cable net as another non-lethal option. If it just slowed you down, would be a nice for dealing with melee weapons people chasing you. 

How about more makeshift traps? Fill a bucket up with something nasty and place it above a door. Attach paint cans to wires for more Home Alone shenanigans

Attach cables to lightbulbs so that the next person to walk past them gets a hell of a shock

[misto]

there is a barely-used trap tactic where you inject liquid plasma into lightbulbs and power cells. probably barely-used because you need access to said liquid plasma to set it up, and if you have access to a chem dispenser and antag status you have about a trillion better options than booby trapping lightbulbs and power cells.

as for trap ideas, perhaps wirecutters could be used to strip insulation off of power cables, thus placing people at electric shock risk if they step on such cables, or even on floor tiles above such cables if you want to get extreme with it. this is inspired in part by my thoughts regarding water tanks in another thread http://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=6897

[amaranthineApocalypse]

there is a barely-used trap tactic where you inject liquid plasma into lightbulbs and power cells. probably barely-used because you need access to said liquid plasma to set it up, and if you have access to a chem dispenser and antag status you have about a trillion better options than booby trapping lightbulbs and power cells.

as for trap ideas, perhaps wirecutters could be used to strip insulation off of power cables, thus placing people at electric shock risk if they step on such cables, or even on floor tiles above such cables if you want to get extreme with it. this is inspired in part by my thoughts regarding water tanks in another thread http://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=6897

It's barely used because it's not all that powerful. Sure, it leaves a hole in the floor when it goes off, but it can't even set off welderbombs so you can't even use it as a trigger for more powerful explosions.

Saying that, if it were patched so that it could i would ABSOLUTELY use it more often. AI triggered welderbombs ftw.

[Noah Buttes]

Nuke, or: You Will Only Win If The Ops Are Retarded (And Probably Gas Themselves)
(or if security shits out enough armor, or science enough bombs (unless either of these is the target) to kill the ops)

Seriously what is the crew supposed to even do when like 5 or 6 guys plant themselves in an area and all have revolvers/spackers/the fucking wowi'mdead RPG? At this point it's not disposing of the nuke that's the problem, it's getting within 100 meters of it before you get nailed by a Spacker and drop into crit

It's literally worse than giving them stimpacks, at least they don't grant healing.

UHHHHHH

Code:

            on_mob_life(var/mob/living/M)
                if (!M) M = holder.my_atom
                if (src.volume > 5)
                    if (M.get_oxygen_deprivation())
                        M.take_oxygen_deprivation(-5)
                    if (M.get_toxin_damage())
                        M.take_toxin_damage(-5)
                    if (M.stunned)
                        M.stunned = 0
                    if (M.weakened)
                        M.weakened = 0
                    if (M.paralysis)
                        M.paralysis = 0
                    if (M.slowed)
                        M.slowed = 0
                    if (M.misstep_chance)
                        M.change_misstep_chance(-INFINITY)
                    M.HealDamage("All", 10, 10)
                    M.dizziness = max(0,M.dizziness-10)
                    M.drowsyness = max(0,M.drowsyness-10)
                    M.sleeping = 0
                else
                    M.take_toxin_damage(2)
                    random_brute_damage(M, 1)
                    if (prob(10))
                        M.stunned += 3
                M.updatehealth()
                ..(M)
                return

Stimulants definitely heal a whole bunch as long as you're above 5 units.

[atomic1fire]

Are we even allowed to bomb the ops?

Otherwise I'd probably just consider throwing a beaker bomb full of acid into the op room and melting their armor and weapons off.

[Roomba]

As long as you try to minimize collateral damage I've never seen many people take issue with it, certain extreme measures have to be taken when the station is on the line. Obviously there's degrees - hellfoaming a room full of friendlies will get frowned upon, and be extremely judicious in your use of TTVs if you happen to have them.

[Vuk Farkas]

Forgot to add tho who state "security has enough shit to deal with already" are probably security players... but lets face it i played as detective and was replacing security completely many times... and guess what? 90% of the time it was a troublemaker raiding security, detectives office, bar, QM and such they didnt have even a friggin flaregun or flamethrower! Heck almoust every one of them used toolboxes and such already awailable tool! Or weapons they obtained from said offices! Rarely someone would raid the artifacts lab and abuse artifacts (darkness artifacts, and once i had a clown using some sonic stun artifact that stuns the user and everyone in 5 tile radius). I am yet to see anyone making a single fuckin makeshift weapon... i didnt see even poisoned scalpels! The worst case of alternate uses i saw was medics using some meds from the vending machines! they didnt even bother brewing somethin!!!

I rarely play security because it's either boring as anything or ridiculous; in general I have an idea of the level of involvement I want in a given round, security does not give me that flexibility. As far as I can tell you mostly play on LLJK1, and have not given consideration in your post to just how much more chaos this would cause on LLJK2 (which uses the same code).

Additionally, what you stated about them not having a flaregun or flamethrower just backs up my point that the standard tools available are sufficient in most cases for those just being greytiding shits rather than actual antagonists. LLJK1 players who are not antags, in general, do not powergame. For example, I notice you as detective go and put on a welding mask and fire suit and carry a toolbox most rounds - there's not really a reason for a detective to do that (especially until shit hits the fan), yet you do it anyway. If I'm carrying some sort of firearm, or poisoned scalpel, or whatever else counts as a weapon pretty much exclusively, I've just painted a "had intent to kill" sign on me whenever security catches me. If I'm not an antagonist, this is basically the opposite of how I should be playing the game.

and in case ya paid attention as a detective that wears armored firesuit and welder mask (and i dont carry a toolbox, i did carry a secure briefcase once or twice) i am then doing multiple jobs (usually replacing entire shitcurity and engineering) and going to space adventures... not to mention dealing with problematic crew (usually griefers) and in case anyone notice murders are the least of our issues... 90% of cases are actually station vandalisms!!! most common is plasma+oxy tank (or just plasma) in engineering or near it set a blaze... or owerloaded engine on purpose with all the canisters at the engine (and the hellburn shields open) not to mention more crew dies of suicide and stupidity than murders... like going into space without a pod or jetpack... not bringing a first aid kit into exploration... not weaponizing when exploring (usually fear of a ban, not to mention any effective weapon is a huge hassle and risk to obtain)
And admins arent helping either, i mean they allow phasers for exploration under some weird circumstances but gods forbid ya scan e-guns and such stun only weapons! Whats next forbiding detective to carry his revolver? If ya ask me crew should have discrete permission to carry non lethals (considering a visit to EVA, pod bay, chemistry, or just the medical vendor can yield far more fucked up weapons)

I understand the game is made for failures, but having the station severely damaged by engine owerload, or welder bombs and such is plain ridiculous... in other words any idiot with minimum of basic knowledge can fuck up the game in 5 minutes! and most of the times its inexperienced crew... i expected reinforced floors and walls to be able to take at least one explosion...

---

Just to add somethin... if yer a regular ya will notice some peeps get an ooc grudge (example as a mechanic since no one gives a fuck to open a door for me i ask for ID upgrade, which lately gets refused under excuse of powergaming, even if some other peeps actually powergame... and like for example MD expects me to beg or somethin to be let into medbay to scan his machines and equipment... ironically doesnt let me scan the most needed ones like medi scanners, goggles and the upgrade! To make matters worse peeps tend to steal pods from sec and cargo! (for fuck sake make the civilian pods unlocked no one will bother spending hours cracking a pod code, when ya can hack a door in one minute to steal the sec or QM pods!) Not only that any effective weapon (i aint counting flamethrower here even if it is a really good weapon and tool) is obtained via random crate find, but nearly every god damn one of them requires ya to have acess... miners sometimes run into weapon crates, QM can order some, captain has that antique (which takes horrendous ammount of time just to assemble), security has some... which forces people to steal, rather than  make their own (only a few explorers in science ever bothered grabbing even the flaregun...) Not to mention it should be legit for a mechanic to scan and sell non-lethals to NT workers, and lethals with permission from sec to fill the stations coffers!