Makeshift weapons

[Mordent]

... words ...

Security have a hard enough time as-is, how do you think that arming the general populace would help that? If you let people make weapons it'll basically be required to carry them else you get robusted. It just escalates things.

Honestly, the improvised tools you have at your disposal are fairly robust: screwdrivers, circular saws, toolboxes, fire extinguishers...

[Mcspizzy]

... words ...

Security have a hard enough time as-is, how do you think that arming the general populace would help that? If you let people make weapons it'll basically be required to carry them else you get robusted. It just escalates things.

Honestly, the improvised tools you have at your disposal are fairly robust: screwdrivers, circular saws, toolboxes, fire extinguishers...

I agree with mordent that this will happen, a knife from the bar on harm aimed at the head will kill pretty quickly not to mention all the bleeding procs id causes. I think a better solution would to add more weapons similar to the captains antique laser.

[misto]

quite doom and gloom. people can hop in a miniputt at round start and be mass producing copies of phaser guns at minimal personal risk within 5 minutes. at least homemade shit is funnier and has more variety.

i think a wooden stake launcher for hurting vampires would be great fun. the secret is that wooden stakes actually hurt everyone quite badly when launched into their chest at high speed

[Nnystyxx]

Yeah, people can shit out GOOD weapons all the time anyway if they want to
Some shittier weapons that are less horrible metagrife-y to make would be a lot better I think considering mechanics & a pod can get you an infinite supply of perfect rechargeable stun/killguns. Security has to fuckin deal with THAT already and none of the mechanics stuff even requires ID access to it

WHILE BEING ONE OF THE MOST BROKEN INTO AREAS ON COG2

---

SERIOUSLY THOUGH
I've seen people regularly intentionally break the windows in mechanics so they can replace them with walls because it's a giant "break in here" sign otherwise. They don't benefit mechanics in terms of seeing much of anything, they just leave a way to bust in easily

[atomic1fire]

Yeah, people can shit out GOOD weapons all the time anyway if they want to
Some shittier weapons that are less horrible metagrife-y to make would be a lot better I think considering mechanics & a pod can get you an infinite supply of perfect rechargeable stun/killguns. Security has to fuckin deal with THAT already and none of the mechanics stuff even requires ID access to it

WHILE BEING ONE OF THE MOST BROKEN INTO AREAS ON COG2

---

SERIOUSLY THOUGH
I've seen people regularly intentionally break the windows in mechanics  so they can replace them with walls because it's a giant "break in here" sign otherwise. They don't benefit mechanics in terms of seeing much of anything, they just leave a way to bust in easily

Which reminds me why isn't there an easy way to tear down reinforced windows with tools.

Seems silly that you can deconstruct walls but you can't make windows back into glass sheets.

Pretty sure you can wrench windows back into sheets on TG.

Breaking a window to get around it just seems wasteful.

[Vuk Farkas]

Yeah, people can shit out GOOD weapons all the time anyway if they want to
Some shittier weapons that are less horrible metagrife-y to make would be a lot better I think considering mechanics & a pod can get you an infinite supply of perfect rechargeable stun/killguns. Security has to fuckin deal with THAT already and none of the mechanics stuff even requires ID access to it

WHILE BEING ONE OF THE MOST BROKEN INTO AREAS ON COG2

---

SERIOUSLY THOUGH
I've seen people regularly intentionally break the windows in mechanics  so they can replace them with walls because it's a giant "break in here" sign otherwise. They don't benefit mechanics in terms of seeing much of anything, they just leave a way to bust in easily

Which reminds me why isn't there an easy way to tear down reinforced windows with tools.

Seems silly that you can deconstruct walls but you can't make windows back into glass sheets.

Pretty sure you can wrench windows back into sheets on TG.

Breaking a window to get around it just seems wasteful.

well actually ya can put the broken pieces into the reclaimer (or whatever that machine for making bars and cubes outta materials is called) then put the resources into fabricators and then print out stuff ya need!

---

Forgot to add tho who state "security has enough shit to deal with already" are probably security players... but lets face it i played as detective and was replacing security completely many times... and guess what? 90% of the time it was a troublemaker raiding security, detectives office, bar, QM and such they didnt have even a friggin flaregun or flamethrower! Heck almoust every one of them used toolboxes and such already awailable tool! Or weapons they obtained from said offices! Rarely someone would raid the artifacts lab and abuse artifacts (darkness artifacts, and once i had a clown using some sonic stun artifact that stuns the user and everyone in 5 tile radius). I am yet to see anyone making a single fuckin makeshift weapon... i didnt see even poisoned scalpels! The worst case of alternate uses i saw was medics using some meds from the vending machines! they didnt even bother brewing somethin!!!

I want to encourage usage of makeshift stuff, and like i said before, flareguns  and shotguns could be used for many other things (like fill the shell with fire extinguisher stuff to extinguish someone at the other end of the room at a cost of minor brute)

Heck we could add makeshift 40mm grenades and makeshift grenade launchers (preferably one-shooters like they used like 50 years ago, those are an owersized flaregun basically) so we can launch other things than smoke and explosives! imagine firing a custom shell from the safety of a hallway into a room filled with burning hot plasma! And it extinguishes a large area! Or heck even healing chems (imagine syndy drones killing crew in one spot, lets say escape, and someone shoots a reviving-healing chem, thus giving crew a second chance!)
Or lets say security has an issue with some really dodgy crimmy... they cant corner him or get a hit on him, the guy wears a welding mask they can blind-stun him either... make stun 40mm shell! It not only acts like an EMP but also stuns people caught in the blast area! Also useful when someone hides in a room, ya cant get a direct hit, but a stun grenade can take care of it!

Also the makeshift lasergun i talked about... it should have an alternate use! As a welder! basically it would have a semi firing mode and a welder mode, thus alowing crew to use an alternative to conventional welders, and this alternative would not only use renewable energy instead of fuel, it would be safer (no more accidentally welder-bombing the station, i had experienced that in robotics a lot, when someone tried to refill a welder, and didnt turn it off! Half the medbay was severely damaged!). Also like the welder it should be an alternative to set things on fire (like with matches or zippos) a nice way to light yer cigar! (imagine the hilarity if someone forgets it on firing mode and lasers his face or head off, burns his eyes, or somethin cause he was lighting the cigar... lit the cigar alright a bit too much!)

[BBEG]

Yeah, people can shit out GOOD weapons all the time anyway if they want to
Some shittier weapons that are less horrible metagrife-y to make would be a lot better I think considering mechanics & a pod can get you an infinite supply of perfect rechargeable stun/killguns. Security has to fuckin deal with THAT already and none of the mechanics stuff even requires ID access to it

WHILE BEING ONE OF THE MOST BROKEN INTO AREAS ON COG2

---

SERIOUSLY THOUGH
I've seen people regularly intentionally break the windows in mechanics  so they can replace them with walls because it's a giant "break in here" sign otherwise. They don't benefit mechanics in terms of seeing much of anything, they just leave a way to bust in easily

Which reminds me why isn't there an easy way to tear down reinforced windows with tools.

Seems silly that you can deconstruct walls but you can't make windows back into glass sheets.

Pretty sure you can wrench windows back into sheets on TG.

Breaking a window to get around it just seems wasteful.

well actually ya can put the broken pieces into the reclaimer (or whatever that machine for making bars and cubes outta materials is called) then put the resources into fabricators and then print out stuff ya need!

---

Forgot to add tho who state "security has enough shit to deal with already" are probably security players... but lets face it i played as detective and was replacing security completely many times... and guess what? 90% of the time it was a troublemaker raiding security, detectives office, bar, QM and such they didnt have even a friggin flaregun or flamethrower! Heck almoust every one of them used toolboxes and such already awailable tool! Or weapons they obtained from said offices! Rarely someone would raid the artifacts lab and abuse artifacts (darkness artifacts, and once i had a clown using some sonic stun artifact that stuns the user and everyone in 5 tile radius). I am yet to see anyone making a single fuckin makeshift weapon... i didnt see even poisoned scalpels! The worst case of alternate uses i saw was medics using some meds from the vending machines! they didnt even bother brewing somethin!!!

I want to encourage usage of makeshift stuff, and like i said before, flareguns  and shotguns could be used for many other things (like fill the shell with fire extinguisher stuff to extinguish someone at the other end of the room at a cost of minor brute)

Heck we could add makeshift 40mm grenades and makeshift grenade launchers (preferably one-shooters like they used like 50 years ago, those are an owersized flaregun basically) so we can launch other things than smoke and explosives! imagine firing a custom shell from the safety of a hallway into a room filled with burning hot plasma! And it extinguishes a large area! Or heck even healing chems (imagine syndy drones killing crew in one spot, lets say escape, and someone shoots a reviving-healing chem, thus giving crew a second chance!)
Or lets say security has an issue with some really dodgy crimmy... they cant corner him or get a hit on him, the guy wears a welding mask they can blind-stun him either... make stun 40mm shell! It not only acts like an EMP but also stuns people caught in the blast area! Also useful when someone hides in a room, ya cant get a direct hit, but a stun grenade can take care of it!

Also the makeshift lasergun i talked about... it should have an alternate use! As a welder! basically it would have a semi firing mode and a welder mode, thus alowing crew to use an alternative to conventional welders, and this alternative would not only use renewable energy instead of fuel, it would be safer (no more accidentally welder-bombing the station, i had experienced that in robotics a lot, when someone tried to refill a welder, and didnt turn it off! Half the medbay was severely damaged!). Also like the welder it should be an alternative to set things on fire (like with matches or zippos) a nice way to light yer cigar! (imagine the hilarity if someone forgets it on firing mode and lasers his face or head off, burns his eyes, or somethin cause he was lighting the cigar... lit the cigar alright a bit too much!)

to be honest most of the security problems by simply adding more security job slots and a few extra guns in the armory hell there are what 8 sec lockers 5 in the bring 1 by arrivals one by escape and one by the podbay

[Frank_Stein]

TBH I hardly even see people use zip guns. Flamethrowers seem like the most used improvised weapon.

If anything from this thread, I want to see a blackjack/sap (Maybe metal rods and some sheets of fabric) because I want a weapon that does pure stamina damage for knocking people out that available to the common man. (It should take about as many hits to knock someone out with it as it would to knock them out with extinguishers or a tool box, just it won't do brute damage on top of it)

[Roomba]

Honestly I never really cared for most of the improvised weapons/tacticool gun mod threads. If I wanted to play Rust/7 Days to Die/insert whatever survival-crafting game is in vogue at the moment, I'd do that instead of SS13. The difference between those games and SS13 is that the main mode of interacting with the world at large and other entities in it is via the medium of violence, whereas the same does not hold true for SS13, regardless of how much some vehemently disagree. If more improvised weapons with no drawback were easily craftable, every minor assistant conflict would escalate into murder, because when all you have is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail.

[Mordent]

Forgot to add tho who state "security has enough shit to deal with already" are probably security players... but lets face it i played as detective and was replacing security completely many times... and guess what? 90% of the time it was a troublemaker raiding security, detectives office, bar, QM and such they didnt have even a friggin flaregun or flamethrower! Heck almoust every one of them used toolboxes and such already awailable tool! Or weapons they obtained from said offices! Rarely someone would raid the artifacts lab and abuse artifacts (darkness artifacts, and once i had a clown using some sonic stun artifact that stuns the user and everyone in 5 tile radius). I am yet to see anyone making a single fuckin makeshift weapon... i didnt see even poisoned scalpels! The worst case of alternate uses i saw was medics using some meds from the vending machines! they didnt even bother brewing somethin!!!

I rarely play security because it's either boring as anything or ridiculous; in general I have an idea of the level of involvement I want in a given round, security does not give me that flexibility. As far as I can tell you mostly play on LLJK1, and have not given consideration in your post to just how much more chaos this would cause on LLJK2 (which uses the same code).

Additionally, what you stated about them not having a flaregun or flamethrower just backs up my point that the standard tools available are sufficient in most cases for those just being greytiding shits rather than actual antagonists. LLJK1 players who are not antags, in general, do not powergame. For example, I notice you as detective go and put on a welding mask and fire suit and carry a toolbox most rounds - there's not really a reason for a detective to do that (especially until shit hits the fan), yet you do it anyway. If I'm carrying some sort of firearm, or poisoned scalpel, or whatever else counts as a weapon pretty much exclusively, I've just painted a "had intent to kill" sign on me whenever security catches me. If I'm not an antagonist, this is basically the opposite of how I should be playing the game.

[BBEG]

Honestly I never really cared for most of the improvised weapons/tacticool gun mod threads. If I wanted to play Rust/7 Days to Die/insert whatever survival-crafting game is in vogue at the moment, I'd do that instead of SS13. The difference between those games and SS13 is that the main mode of interacting with the world at large and other entities in it is via the medium of violence, whereas the same does not hold true for SS13, regardless of how much some vehemently disagree. If more improvised weapons with no drawback were easily craftable, every minor assistant conflict would escalate into murder, because when all you have is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail.

except that those people get banned put it simply right now every assistant can easily build a flamethrower or zipgun and if nothing else can bash someone with a toolbox but they don't because A: people aren't dicks like that regardless of what most say about the community. B: the ones who do resort to murder are typically antagonists and even then some just run gimmicks that are annoying but harmless. and C: the ones that murder even when not antagonists get banned. so no adding more make shift weapons will not turn the station into the hunger games and not to mention we've been discussing ways to give the weapons drawback that will make them crappy but still useable if you've got nothing better so that point goes out the window

[Roomba]

You can't make any definitive statements on how said weapons will alter (or fail to) prevailing player culture until they're introduced. As for your other points, let's just say I disagree. Assistants and bored people get into scuffles that often end in death every other round, and flamethrowers get assembled just as often.

[BBEG]

You can't make any definitive statements on how said weapons will alter (or fail to) prevailing player culture until they're introduced. As for your other points, let's just say I disagree. Assistants and bored people get into scuffles that often end in death every other round, and flamethrowers get assembled just as often.

Your right we can't asses how weapons will alter the player culture until they've been added so neither of us can argue that however i fail to see the scuffles that your talking about i have seen people fight but unless one of them was an antag they never escalate to killing because if they do they will get banned. I understand your worry about the whole devolving into a death match thing i've seen that happen in a lot of games like Day Z but i highly doubt the admins would allow that as they are good about removing things that encourage random violence from non-antags.

[misto]

drooling dorks who get stabby when theyre bored are more likely to grab the nearest screwdriver or pair of scissors than bother with building something that takes the littlest ounce of time and effort

[atomic1fire]

drooling dorks who get stabby when theyre bored are more likely to grab the nearest screwdriver or pair of scissors than bother with building something that takes the littlest ounce of time and effort

I agree

scissors, screw drivers, and fire extinguishers are the ultimate "I have no idea what I'm doing but I want to kill somebody because I'm bored" weapon.

Ghetto weapons are mostly used by people who only expect to use them in self defense, and by antags who don't have access to tatortot weapons.