LLJK1 VS LLJK4 Which one should be the "main server"?

[Gannets]

Tell yr friends about goonstation today.

[Huff H Law]

Realtalk, Wire, changing 1 into a secret server was the dumbest move made in 2016 so far. The population is now split even further, between 1, 4 and 5, and now each server is sporting barely anyone, on a big map, and that sucks. You've also ousted the small group of funtime experimenters/new players who are learning, just because you think extended is a dumb game mode.
:downsbravo:

Hey don't blame Wire for this, all of this server juggling business was purely my idea.

Oh wait this referred to a post by wire in a different thread? How confusing.

[The Grim Sleeper]

People can experiment and learn on secret. You know, during the actual game in this game of ours.

The low playercount isn't because of this.

Yes it is. I have quit playing until there is some solution to "dickheads who want to 'win' by killing all 3 people on the server".
Having a server without antags would help, because the Admins are too limp dicked to ban griefers who have antag status.

[Gannets]

Admins are too limp dicked to ban griefers who have antag status.

I'm not even sure if this deserves a reply, but hey here I am.

For one, we do in fact talk to antagonists who are causing problems, for example an antagonist repeatedly recalling the shuttle so they can clear out the crew is likely to get one of us asking them questions and telling them to end the round.

Now, as for this fictional concept of "antag griefers" that you've created, they simply do not exist. Antagonists exist to create chaos, to serve as the common enemy for the crew to unite against, they are free to kill whatever players they choose, destroy whatever they want, As long as they aren't breaking server rules regarding language and sexual content. The wiki is clear about this.

They are exempt from the rules about griefing and murdering.

These privileges are extended to you too when you become an antagonist, so it's not like anyone receives preferential treatment, as long as you have an antagonist role enabled in your character settings, you too can take advantage of this loosening of the rules!

Please don't make posts insulting the administration staff due to your miss-understanding of the rules of this videogame.

[The Grim Sleeper]

I appreciate that you take your admin role seriously enough to reply to, what I admit, was a crude complaint. I am also glad to see that (and what) action is taken to handle problematic players, although I disagree on what constitutes a problematic player.

They are exempt from the rules about griefing and murdering.

... you too can take advantage of this loosening of the rules!

...fictional concept of "antag griefers"...

And I don't really care for it. I take no joy in knowing that people are not enjoying themselves, especially if it is by my hand.
I realize that this rule about 'relaxing rules for antagonists' is necessary. Without it, policing the servers would be impossible (incidentally, Gannets, thank you for your service).
But this does leave a substantial grey zone for antagonists players who aren't really antagonists, just being dicks. In my opinion, killing people 'not because you are on my objectives list, or obstructing objectives, but because I am an antagonists' is griefing. On a normal server, I keep that to myself and enjoy the delights of a populous station, sometimes even playing an antagonist.
However, the kill-spree mindset is the norm even when it isn't viable. In the past 2 weeks I've been murdered 4 times within the first 10 minutes of a round on servers that had less then 5 people playing on them, even though I specifically joined those servers in an attempt to get away from the kill-frenzy. I found that to be so aggravating that I can't really enjoy the game any more for fear of getting ganked.

So getting back on topic, I quit playing because the new server settings enforce situations where a single player can ruin a practice round for many players and the rules protect this behaviour. And perhaps that is for the better. I may not be the best fit for SS13's cut-throat gameplay. But on the topic 'server population' these are my two cents.

[Ed Venture]

Admins are too limp dicked to ban griefers who have antag status.

  You know antags are allowed to do what they want right? I'm honestly shocked that one a admin replied to you in a serious manner and two that you want players who are antags to be banned even though they are doing nothing wrong, since you know they are antags. Jesus Christ.

Try the RP server man. It has alot of what you are looking for.

---

Also just gonna add that I to want a extended server back as there were times I would go there to learn at my own pace. Sure you can learn something on the main servers but the best part about extended was that you had all the time you needed and wanted to learn something and to then test it out. It's a real shame that is gone now.

[Sundance]

We shouldn't encourage goonstation to be a fucking hugbox, but I do feel the unwritten law of being an antagonist and having a modicum of sense should be illustrated in the wiki.
Things like "don't kill the entire crew if the entire crew is you and the chef"
and "don't constantly recall the shuttle"
We shouldn't chastise antagonists that DO this once off, but give it warning that if this behavior is consistent then you may be grumped by an admin or whatever. Being mindful is key

[Ed Venture]

I'm still of the mind that antags should always have the freedom to do what they feel like. It was the selling point to why I played space station and why I stayed on goon

[Sundance]

Antags never really had complete and utter freedom to do what ever they like. They are still held to the same standards as everyone else on the station, only they have license to kill/be an utter douche.
If you want to kill everyone on the station, that's fine, go ahead. But there's a difference between trying to do that, and forcing the round to go on ad infinitum, i.e: Common sense, i.e: Dont be a fucknut. The same would go if someone made a script so that all the firedoors opened and closed and lagged the server. These things are not stated in the wiki, and I feel like they should be worded very carefully in such a manner that while the behavior is not exactly against the rules, doing so repeatedly would put the admin spotlight on you, i.e: A BAD THING.

I don't see why you're disagreeing with me hear ed, this is something that occurs anyway and highlighting it in the wiki would discourage people from being shitheaps  

[Ed Venture]

I'm not and never was disagreeing with you. I was just stating that I liked the freedom antags have and think it should stay that way.

[Erik]

Also just gonna add that I to want a extended server back as there were times I would go there to learn at my own pace. Sure you can learn something on the main servers but the best part about extended was that you had all the time you needed and wanted to learn something and to then test it out. It's a real shame that is gone now.

Yes. Please.

[Wire]

People can experiment and learn on secret. You know, during the actual game in this game of ours.

The low playercount isn't because of this.

Yes it is. I have quit playing until there is some solution to "dickheads who want to 'win' by killing all 3 people on the server".
Having a server without antags would help, because the Admins are too limp dicked to ban griefers who have antag status.

You're confusing cause and effect. The playercount was already low before any server switching. You're also entirely wrong about any point you ever make (seriously, if there's anything goonstation is known for it's for banning shitters at the drop of a hat), so I'm just going to be ignoring you specifically from now on.

With regards to the extended server stuff. There are two main concerns. One is that perf is better for some depending on the server region, and the other is that only one person has control over #1, so if it dies then everyone fucks off to 4 or 5 (probably 4) which would be dumb if it's running extended.

Also as a sidenote I'd like to mention that none of you fuckers know what you want.

[Ed Venture]

Make 1 extended and 4 the normal server. So that way if the server dies we don't have to wait on the one person to restart it and people get the extended server they want. I don't even understand why this whole ordeal has been dragged on so long. Once 4 was fixed things should have went back to normal but instead we had constant switches and they did effect playercount for a while as I witnessed it myself when it happen and most of the people went to LLJK 5 while I sat and waiting for the others to get 15 players only for another switch to happen. I voiced my frustration in this thread and in IRC during the time and as a result we lost extended for very poor reasons imo.

Also as a sidenote I'd like to mention that none of you fuckers know what you want.

This is a pretty poor attitude coming from a coder and pretty much translates to "I hear your feedback but fuck you" I think it's pretty clear what most of the people want as they have been clearly and nicely asking for extended to come back. Chill out please wire I am grateful for all the work you do and all. But the reasons you give and the way you handle this are pretty weak.

[ZeWaka]

Make 1 extended and 4 the normal server. So that way if the server dies we don't have to wait on the one person to restart it and people get the extended server they want.

Honestly, in the poll people would prefer 1 to be the normal server. I feel like that's a more accurate representation of the playerbase and their thoughts.
There are also plenty of people in this thread saying they are glad with the change.

[Ed Venture]

I'm one of those people who voted for LLJK1 but that was before I knew the change was going to remove extended and before I learned that the voting meant nothing as there were plans to go back to LLJK4 anyways. Extended was a great place to learn the game at your own pace without worry of being killed before you could get started and you did not really have to worry about hurting others as you tested things. I am all for letting people learn the game as the action is happening but I am also for learning the game in a safe and open environment. I always been for adding things instead of removing things be it game modes to features and now sadly it looks like I can add extended to the list of good ideas removed. The change does not hurt me that much as I already learned the chems I'll never used and got used to the game but I know for a fact it will hurt a part of the playerbase who took the time to refine their skill and knowledge.