ok

[BlackPhoenix]

You know this is one of those ideas that sounds alright on paper but once it gets added people will utterly loathe it and get annoyed.

I can definitely see the potential for this, or for it being really great. Like the stamina system, it's entirely dependent on how it's done.

[Marquesas]

Yeah, I think I need to clarify here, what I was proposing was that stun batons
- do significant stamina damage or instant stun -- open for discussion -- when turned on, but no damage.
- do light stamina damage and damage - much like any other normal object - when turned off
- cause you to be all jittery for a few seconds, slowing movement and making you drop items; but if the instant stun is kept, this effect doesn't last longer than the stun itself

The confusion is something I don't want for stun batons, it's a good mechanic for tasers but not batons.

This would keep stun batons in the line as viable arrest options while lethal options become less frustrating to fight.

Hm, so the stun baton would deplete the stamina bar down to zero?

Not instantly, please stop reading words into things I say.

1. Choking and gasping, you mightn't be able to yell for help upon stun or sometime after.

Moot because it's not proposed to be instant.

2. If it's zero, then you will be knocked unconscious from the stun. You could have players who would use this unconsciousness as a means to an end, as it firstly lags the target and secondly unconscious players are prone to shit like surgery. Example would be to stun someone, table them, stun again and then remove their brain for instant death. This is already possible, but less so.

Stamina stun isn't unconsciousness, though???

3. The confused movement and dropping would also be a gripe for me, as would it be with a taser. I dont think this adds ANYTHING to the game, as I stated to cogs it doesn't fall in line with the attrition thing he/admins/whoever wants going. It'd be better if maybe the tasing had a "prone" effect on a target, which means they are slightly slower and are more vulnerable to tased shots, i.e: one shot would down them. Currently if a target recovers from their stun, they're still fucked if the tase effect is still in place. Adding this to the stun baton would buff security, but for worse not for better.

I literally said I'm not adding confused movement to it????? LOOK IT'S RIGHT HERE:

The confusion is something I don't want for stun batons, it's a good mechanic for tasers but not batons.

[Marquesas]

Also, I'm just going to add a bottom line here.

Tasers will not change. Don't veer off topic regarding this.

[Sundance]

Not instantly, please stop reading words into things I say.

Yeah, I think I need to clarify here, what I was proposing was that stun batons
- do significant stamina damage or instant stun -- open for discussion -- when turned on, but no damage.

I'm not reading into anything marq, i'm reading exactly what you're typing. If you're making stun batons in line with tasers, then it will deplete the stamina bar exactly the way tasers will, instead of just magically stunning the player. I have no issue with this, but you CAN get knocked unconscious from being tased, and you WOULD get knocked unconscious if the stun baton depletes the stamina bar. Even if it doesn't do it from the first hit, it will do it on the second, and that's a problem. Don't believe me? A barrel of tased shots have been used to knock players unconscious and lag their client, this has been reported in the bug reports.

Unless i'm being confused here and that's not what you're doing at all. If not, what the heck are you doing?

Also, I'm just going to add a bottom line here.

Tasers will not change. Don't veer off topic regarding this.

That's funny that you're pointing out veering off topic. This thread is about movement and item use while downed (which I like the crawling aspect should I add) and not about stun batons. I was merely making a comparison seen as stun batons were proposed a rework that tasing currently stifles gunfights in which recovering from a stun still inflicts the stun retard movement, a thing that neither makes sense nor is good in terms of gameplay.

[Ed Venture]

I think I'd be okay with stun weapons if getting hit more then once did not lock up my game and if you could defend yourself after getting hit by one taser bolt. Other then that I feel like stun weapons are perfect we're they are ( other then getting stunned when harm baton'd) Also I don't feel like either of you two are off topic what is being discussed ties into the discussion. I'm fine with confused movement but making stuns drop whatever you are holding is dumb and all three of these things (lag when stunned, confused movement and dropping of items) makes things a tad op

[Ed Venture]

Also Marq people have been talkin about how the taser functions sine the thread started. Just because some people disagree with you does not mean it is off topic.

[Ed Venture]

I have to agree with Sundance the confused movement and dropping of items when stunned/tased is terrible. It makes escaping arrest nigh impossible and it makes defending yourself from security or antags completely impossible.

Security is already hard enough to play. Don't make this shit harder or no one at all will play it even more so than already.

How does it makes things harder? It never did this a few months ago and it did not change how much effort it took to arrest someone. You get stunned now you are completely fucked for reasons stated above and if you are completely unlucky then it could very well be a instant death. Even if this idea was impletmented you woul still be fucked cause officers stun you till your stamina drops to 0 and your game lags out and when it comes back you"ll be cuffed.

[Marquesas]

I'm not reading into anything marq, i'm reading exactly what you're typing. If you're making stun batons in line with tasers, then it will deplete the stamina bar exactly the way tasers will, instead of just magically stunning the player.

It's an either-or. The instant stun is basically 'keeping current behaviour'. I thought that was clear enough?

That's funny that you're pointing out veering off topic. This thread is about movement and item use while downed (which I like the crawling aspect should I add) and not about stun batons.

Actually, one of the massive aspects of this change is whether or not arrests remain viable. Since batons are a huge part of that deal (and the fact that they would be severely nerfed by this change whereas tasers wouldn't) it's kind of important to deal with this.

I think I'd be okay with stun weapons if getting hit more then once did not lock up my game and if you could defend yourself after getting hit by one taser bolt. Other then that I feel like stun weapons are perfect we're they are ( other then getting stunned when harm baton'd) Also I don't feel like either of you two are off topic what is being discussed ties into the discussion. I'm fine with confused movement but making stuns drop whatever you are holding is dumb and all three of these things (lag when stunned, confused movement and dropping of items) makes things a tad op

We can argue semantics all day but at the end of the day, you believe dropping of items to be a really annoying thing and I believe it to be a necessary evil. We can discuss the not adding of thereof to batons (but you'll have to line up something more solid than 'it is dumb' because if this feature becomes a thing you need to be able to reliably have someone be disarmed when stunned or risk making security even harder), but just because you're loud I'm not removing it from tasers.

[Ed Venture]

I've listed other reasons to why it's op other then it's dumb and so have others. Starting to look like you are only reading whs you want to read. Not all changes are for the better and maybe it's time to accept that maybe some changes fuck over some player. Sure it's great for security but its awful for anyone us

[Ed Venture]

My issue is not that whatever item you have in your hand drops. It's the fact that you can't pick/hold things in your hand for a bit even after you recover from the stun.

[Roomba]

I have to agree, it feels like you're being a little defensive about this. I think the initial proposal was vague enough in intent that further requests for clarity were warranted, and I think tazer discussion isn't especially off-topic given that the thread is about possible movement and item use when downed, and that tazers are one of the most common methods of downing people. I'm starting to think this whole enterprise might be a bad idea after all, if this is the way it's going to be implemented.

[Nubcake]

The worst aspect of the whole taser drop thing is it seems to completely ignore any stun resistance/reduction you have, For example even on a stimpack or syndicate donks it will still effect you just as badly as ff them.

[Noah Buttes]

While I do personally have an issue with tasers not being affected by stimulants, that's not what this thread is about.

Let's please try to refocus on the original subject in the OP, and just drop this toxic discussion before everyone starts to regret it.

[Ed Venture]

While I do personally have an issue with tasers not being affected by stimulants, that's not what this thread is about.

Let's please try to refocus on the original subject in the OP, and just drop this toxic discussion before everyone starts to regret it.

It's not really off topic though. People have been talking about the function of tasers since the start of the thread and this whole discussion was spark over a conversation on how they work in IRC.

[Ed Venture]

Just because you're knocked on your ass doesn't mean you should lose all ability to react and adapt to the situation. Let downed people keep some of their fucking teeth. It's a more satisfying victory for the aggressor, and it gives the victim an actual chance to save themselves.