Cogmap 2: *** UPDATE TO BYOND 509 ASAP ***

[Frank_Stein]

Will the IR detectors in the armory actually work? Or will they be non-functional like the IR detectors in the current armory?

Also, I'd like to remind everyone that you can use packets to hack open secure lockers, so you still don't need an emag.

Maybe the IR detectors should to do something more than just alert Sec, maybe? Have them lockdown the room? Activate some nearby guard buddies?

[Ed Venture]

Will the IR detectors in the armory actually work? Or will they be non-functional like the IR detectors in the current armory?

Also, I'd like to remind everyone that you can use packets to hack open secure lockers, so you still don't need an emag.

Maybe the IR detectors should to do something more than just alert Sec, maybe? Have them lockdown the room? Activate some nearby guard buddies?

this is a cool idea

[Cogwerks]

I like the thought of having the armory being like Mars Vault. Hmmmmmm.

[BlackPhoenix]

Will the IR detectors in the armory actually work? Or will they be non-functional like the IR detectors in the current armory?

Also, I'd like to remind everyone that you can use packets to hack open secure lockers, so you still don't need an emag.

Maybe the IR detectors should to do something more than just alert Sec, maybe? Have them lockdown the room? Activate some nearby guard buddies?

They already are set up to do this on the HEPT outpost with those annoying, life-ruining secu-buddies. This should be a thing.

[pizzatiger]

Yes Yes! I like this idea

[Cogwerks]

Gunchat: I'm pretty sure that unlocked armory guns wouldn't be all that bad, with the right ones. Captain's egun or a QM crate of lasers are far more deadly than rubber-slug shotguns and phasers. I'd like to see more battles of attrition with a lot of weak projectiles flying back and forth and less "oh i got stunned and am now dead a second later" fights. Brutal slugfests are more fun I think. It was fun watching people run around having phaser fights on map preview testing.

Is the bomb disposal stuff worth having?

For the array of weapons in there, I'd hope to see sec teams using certain things for certain tasks. Riot guns and smokes for riots or breaking up big messes, phasers against bad dudes who are packing lethal weapons/abilities themselves, tranqs against drugged-up melee rampagers, etc. I think having a dual-swipe thing requiring two other heads if the HoS is missing could be cool somehow, and this could include unlocking the nanoputt bays in an emergency. Red alert, scramble the putts! Aoogha!

Thematically, I aim to have sec using energy or weak kinetic guns against syndicate kinetic guns. Syndicate sure wouldn't mind missed shots smashing windows out and venting halls to space, NT sec probably ought to avoid this somewhat ('cept for detective, an old-timey hardass.) So no, whoever suggested giving the armory an HE grenade launcher... nooooo.

[Roomba]

I think that once the armory guns are broken out, it's rarely worth using anything other than the riot shotguns, for exactly the reason stated - a single hit landed means a very long stun, and you can then finish off/capture your opponent at your leisure. Even if you wanted to kill your opponent, it's easier finishing them off from a shotgun stun than taking them down with a phaser from a distance. I can think of very few situations where smoke launchers help, but I don't think 'clearing up big messes' is one - it would simply add to the confusion. Also I don't believe QM is capable of ordering lasers anymore, only phasers.

More gunfights out in the open would be neat, but whoever enters the armory first has a massive firepower advantage and can easily snowball their way up to unstoppability. You can see this with wizards, who can loot the armory within the first ten seconds of the round and quickly obliterate any resistance from then on.

[Azungar]

Hey! I haven't been around for more then a year on Goonstation, but when I came back I was seriously impressed with the low-range teleporter thingy. After doing my hardest to locate the observatory on Cogmap2, it was nowhere to be seen.
Please don't scrap the wonderfull observatory PC, whoever made the UI for it deserves a medal. I'ts really simplistic, clear and it fits the "dark" theme inside the room.

In case I'm a complete idiot and it already is on the map but I missed it, feel free to call me bad names.

[BaneOfGiygas]

Hey! I haven't been around for more then a year on Goonstation, but when I came back I was seriously impressed with the low-range teleporter thingy. After doing my hardest to locate the observatory on Cogmap2, it was nowhere to be seen.
Please don't scrap the wonderfull observatory PC, whoever made the UI for it deserves a medal. I'ts really simplistic, clear and it fits the "dark" theme inside the room.

Have no fear friend, the terminal for it is actually in the Research Director's office! The telescope proper has yet to be placed, though. Also, the teleporter itself has its own room now, which means that it will hopefully be expanded on in the future.

I think that once the armory guns are broken out, it's rarely worth using anything other than the riot shotguns, for exactly the reason stated - a single hit landed means a very long stun, and you can then finish off/capture your opponent at your leisure.

[...]

More gunfights out in the open would be neat, but whoever enters the armory first has a massive firepower advantage and can easily snowball their way up to unstoppability. You can see this with wizards, who can loot the armory within the first ten seconds of the round and quickly obliterate any resistance from then on.

I agree heartily with both of these points, though the insta-stuns are what gives the riot shotguns relevance in the face of other long-range stun options, i.e. the taser gun. Perhaps have them deal heavy stamina damage instead of being an instant stun, so you need to fire them at someone at least a few times before they fall over. Compound this with the speed reduction from the damage and bleeding and it makes them a solid upgrade over the taser gun without as much of the cheapness.

As for the second point, I also heartily agree, though I would like to say that the increased number of security checkpoints means that armed resistance to armory break-ins will be much more substantial, and that not many people take enough advantage of the extra equipment lockers anyways. If the riot shotguns are nerfed in accordance with my above suggestions, and also considering the greater size of the map, any one player is going to have a tough time becoming walking Armageddon, because even though the increased map size gives security some problems, it also lessens the extent to which one single antagonist can terrorize the entire station. A welcome change, if you ask me.

Is the bomb disposal stuff worth having?

Quite frankly, no. Or at the very least, not in their present state. That's because almost all of the "bombs" you end up seeing are basically souped-up frag grenades in function, being primed and then tossed at whoever. The only bombs that ever need to be "disposed" are canister bombs, and those are both extremely rare and are powerful enough that being near one that detonates is a death sentence no matter how much explosion resistance you've got stacked.

Furthermore, the bomb disposal stuff makes you really fucking slow, and that's inexcusable for SS13 security. To be an effective security officer, and an effective robuster in general, you need to be fast, and you can't be fast in those things. Where there are bombs, there are more than likely gun-toting antagonists lying in wait, and not being able to properly run away from being shot at is a death sentence.

However, I'm thinking of introducing what amounts to an insulated armor suit, giving increased resistance towards adverse conditions while simultaneously providing the additional bullet resistance that standard security armor provides. It wouldn't be anything you could go spacewalking in, but it's enough so that you wouldn't have to sacrifice your resistance to bullets when you need to get through a hull breach.

For the array of weapons in there, I'd hope to see sec teams using certain things for certain tasks. Riot guns and smokes for riots or breaking up big messes [...]

But the intrinsic problem inherent with weapons designed towards this purpose is that there's only one type of player who's going to have a lot of people gunning for them at once and that's the antagonists. There are only about five or six antagonists in a given round, and to have all of them coming after you simultaneously is almost statistically impossible. The threats security faces are almost always single person, or maybe a duo of people in some cases, who have extremely powerful equipment. Never in my days of security or playing the game in general have I faced a group of people that could be described as a "riot" while also not being an antagonist.

[Sex_Robot]

Riots are inherently impossible really as they involve large amounts of people fucking shit up, and the only people who are allowed to fuck shit up are antagonists. The rest of the riot can only shout and make scream emotes and can be really ignored. It is again the tightrope of moderating the server in a way that does let it become a griefing sim but without stifiling emergent gameplay.

[Noah Buttes]

Riots are inherently impossible really as they involve large amounts of people fucking shit up, and the only people who are allowed to fuck shit up are antagonists. The rest of the riot can only shout and make scream emotes and can be really ignored. It is again the tightrope of moderating the server in a way that does let it become a griefing sim but without stifiling emergent gameplay.

Maybe if rev weren't so horrible we could actually have viable riots.

[Frank_Stein]

Riots are inherently impossible really as they involve large amounts of people fucking shit up, and the only people who are allowed to fuck shit up are antagonists. The rest of the riot can only shout and make scream emotes and can be really ignored. It is again the tightrope of moderating the server in a way that does let it become a griefing sim but without stifiling emergent gameplay.

Maybe if rev weren't so horrible we could actually have viable riots.

I had an old thread about gangs, and how they could be improved by making them not regulated to gang mode, and making them somewhere between Miscreants and Antagonists and essentially acting like a third party between the Station Crew vs. Antagonist dynamic. With this much larger station, I think the ideas from that thread would work a lot better and give Sec a reason to need riot gear.
Link for those interested in checking it out.

[Ed Venture]

Just saying I think Gang Mode would be pretty amazing on cogmap2

[Dr_Bee]

Just saying I think Gang Mode would be pretty amazing on cogmap2

A nations style round that occasionally happens on other servers would be fun on cogmap2 especially, considering the nations would actually have borders.

[misto]

One-person security teams are going to have an absolutely hellish time catching antagonists, even with the help of the likes of the AI. The chutes definitely help this issue, but given how frequent a deficit of security officers can be, it should be considered.

Segways should be made more available for this reason. Possibly also safer? Like, give em a slower low gear mode that doesn't cause you to get flung off, and a high gear mode that works how it does now.

give security officers and hos and command staff a special ability when using segways... they dont crash and get flung because they are experienced segway drivers