Goonhub
07-11-2023, 08:38 AM
Before I start replying to messages I'd like to note that the loadouts for these drawers have changed somewhat; the updated lists are in Github PR #14808.
Another point... The equipment I'm putting in the drawers isn't necessary to run Chemistry, especially for a newbie. The only thing that is truly needed from these lists is a large beaker (and maybe a syringe or welding fuel...); the functions of things like the dropper, mechdropper, IV drip, empty patches, etc. aren't necessary for a fresh player to learn as quickly as possible. With the awareness efforts mentioned earlier, players will naturally come across this information as they gain experience as a player in a timely fashion.
This is really, really frustrating to hear. I mentioned the Cog1 monkey once as a relatable anecdote to call attention to the already cluttered state of the room, and half of the interaction with this post has been about it. This PR aims to change EVERY chemlab, not just the Cog1 chemlab shown here.The monkey's not leaving there anytime soon. I'm convinced that it was an intentional design choice by Cogwerks based on other anti-crew design choices in the map and I am totally unwilling to begin trying to convince them to remove it.
My opinions on this PR have changed since I posted this. I see an equally valuable aspect of this not being inasmuch organizational as it is about consistency in play experience and ease of mapping. Availability of equipment in Chemistry varies noticeably on many maps, with about half of them lacking easy access to welding fuel cans and most lacking accessible IV bags entirely. Obviously, total parity on maps is senseless (Hmm, why does the map with a chemlab hundreds of meters and a shuttle ride away from Medbay have so much medical supplies?), but brand-new players looking for the welding fuel they need to make meth might be frustrated as they transfer from a map like Oshan, where two welding fuel cans are provided, to Donut2, where it's just a large tank in the far corner, to Kondaru where the only one in Science is outside its apparent borders in the podbay. Making these standardized lists also makes mapping easier; mappers can place down the predefined equipment sets they want rather than having to place down everything manually and forgetting something (Did you know donut2 chemlab has no droppers, mechdroppers, reagent scanner, or spectroscopic goggles? wow!).
Quote:[...]most people won't know to click on the tables to find items. While it is a good idea for organizing, it's a very poor idea for newbies.If people don't know about the like 100 storage slots that are sitting right in front of them, that's a pretty big problem. I'm not suggesting that we just squirrel them away with no tell; I've got the paper there as a solid tell that a) there are lab drawers that hold items, and b) exactly how to open them. We could also add a loading tip or a poster to Sci as well showing similar concepts... A blurb in the wiki or in the Pharmacopia detailing where equipment is... and the change in how the storage is displayed making it much easier to come across naturally. Low player awareness is not an unfixable problem!
Quote:[...] On roundstart, i see people in departments running left and right that are lying on tables.The fact that Chemistry would be the only room to do this is perhaps the strongest argument against implementing this change. But there's a good reason for it: Tables let you place down items on places other than the center of its tile. While departments like mining, cargo, botany or genetics all work with several items that aren't always stored on the person, they either have powerful organizational tools (Botany's plant satchel, Mining's rockbox) or items that can be easily identified through the right-click menu (Genetics' injectors and activators, Cargo's cargo). But every single beaker shows up as Large Beaker in the right-click menu unless you use a hand labeler on it (and those aren't available in all chemlabs), and there's no rockbox for scientists that lets you store multiple beakers in a manner whence they're easily identifiable. Having a clear table allows for easy spatial organization, easy identification by visual means, and easy one-click access. If the table's not clear, though, you end up pouring out your skinpen hellmix on the mechdropper that's laying out for no reason and have to rush to medbay.
Quote:I [foresee...] people who got no idea of the chemistry department finding nothing at all.Yeah, my original post was overzealous. Things like the Pharmacopia as well as the beakers that spawn on top of the dispensers and glass fabricator really should stay left out. Converting one or two of the beaker boxes to just be glass pre-loaded into the fabricator would be nice too.
Another point... The equipment I'm putting in the drawers isn't necessary to run Chemistry, especially for a newbie. The only thing that is truly needed from these lists is a large beaker (and maybe a syringe or welding fuel...); the functions of things like the dropper, mechdropper, IV drip, empty patches, etc. aren't necessary for a fresh player to learn as quickly as possible. With the awareness efforts mentioned earlier, players will naturally come across this information as they gain experience as a player in a timely fashion.
Quote:Remember this issue stems from a monkey spawning in the chem lab... [...] the easier fix is just kicking the Cog 1 monkey out of chem lab.
This is really, really frustrating to hear. I mentioned the Cog1 monkey once as a relatable anecdote to call attention to the already cluttered state of the room, and half of the interaction with this post has been about it. This PR aims to change EVERY chemlab, not just the Cog1 chemlab shown here.The monkey's not leaving there anytime soon. I'm convinced that it was an intentional design choice by Cogwerks based on other anti-crew design choices in the map and I am totally unwilling to begin trying to convince them to remove it.
Quote:Also some departments put all their stuffs in lockers. So in my opinion... add chemical locker for this.A fair answer. To have a centralized and recognizable supply item would certainly alleviate the concerns my fellow gamers have. I fear, however, that having ~40 items of 26 different item types all in one locker would be difficult to navigate. Still an option to consider, though.
My opinions on this PR have changed since I posted this. I see an equally valuable aspect of this not being inasmuch organizational as it is about consistency in play experience and ease of mapping. Availability of equipment in Chemistry varies noticeably on many maps, with about half of them lacking easy access to welding fuel cans and most lacking accessible IV bags entirely. Obviously, total parity on maps is senseless (Hmm, why does the map with a chemlab hundreds of meters and a shuttle ride away from Medbay have so much medical supplies?), but brand-new players looking for the welding fuel they need to make meth might be frustrated as they transfer from a map like Oshan, where two welding fuel cans are provided, to Donut2, where it's just a large tank in the far corner, to Kondaru where the only one in Science is outside its apparent borders in the podbay. Making these standardized lists also makes mapping easier; mappers can place down the predefined equipment sets they want rather than having to place down everything manually and forgetting something (Did you know donut2 chemlab has no droppers, mechdroppers, reagent scanner, or spectroscopic goggles? wow!).