Remove or significantly change riot launcher and flashbangs.

[cyberTripping]

90% of the nerf threads are from one person.

Even if this was the case, which I don't think it is, it's irrelevant. Changes don't get made to the game by virtue of a thread being made about them. Changes get made when a coder decides to tweak things, based either on their own wants, or community feedback. If this is "one person wanting their opinion treated as gospel" then I can assure you that you have nothing to worry about, because no coder is going to take a thread with one person in favor of an idea and every single other person arguing against it, and decide that's what they're going to code today.

Most of these coders are long-term players who want to give back to the community, as well, so I can assure you that most changes that happen in the game are done by folks who have 'played a little bit'.

[Lady Birb]

...things that haven't been changed for years, then I'm gonna start having problems with what the so called solution is.

Something staying the same for years is not a reason to keep it that way. It is longstanding goonstation policy that if turbonerds start running something into the ground it is getting nerfed or outright removed. Tradition is a bullshit reason to keep unbalanced features in.

[Rlocks]

Take a look with advanced search, using their username, sorted by author, and with the search set to look in the ideas and suggestions.

[Technature]

Are we implying every single idea is a nerf to the game?

I said weekly for a reason. But let me give you a quick run down on the last nerf suggestions.

Flash bangs - Unfunny Person
Welding Door Adjustment - Cal
Tele Art Nerf - Unfunny Person
Teleporter Nerf - Ikea
Holy Water Nerf - Unfunny Person
Disarm Nerf - Tarmunora

Amazingly enough, most of the nerfs not recommended by Unfunny Person were things that didn't make me think "Someone actually struggles against that, or doesn't understand their purpose?".

Moving on. Yes, four things are not a lot to work with. And most of them already have a good counter for them, most of which don't even need Traitor items or abilities. Give yourself SMES and then pump yourself full of meth and watch as people get frustrated at dealing with it.

And "Oh yeah I guess if you prepare for the possibility of the thought that someone might or maybe would consider using the riot launcher, like anyone even uses that in a common situation lol"

Because yes, everyone knows how much I power game. And that running away and getting an item to help you is definitely not something I recommended if it's repeatedly happening and you see an officer carrying a Riot Launcher around which is possible because Riot Launchers aren't invisible. Explicitly after being told I'm talking shit when I say there are counters without just giving the answers. Like a math teacher.

You're absolutely right, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

90% of the nerf threads are from one person.

Even if this was the case, which I don't think it is, it's irrelevant. Changes don't get made to the game by virtue of a thread being made about them. Changes get made when a coder decides to tweak things, based either on their own wants, or community feedback. If this is "one person wanting their opinion treated as gospel" then I can assure you that you have nothing to worry about, because no coder is going to take a thread with one person in favor of an idea and every single other person arguing against it, and decide that's what they're going to code today.

Most of these coders are long-term players who want to give back to the community, as well, so I can assure you that most changes that happen in the game are done by folks who have 'played a little bit'.

I feel it is relevant. Wouldn't someone who says every little thing needs to be nerfed considered someone who just complains about everything anywhere else?

[Ikea]

I dont think the design of, if you dont have earmuffs its literally one click and its an instant 10 second stun (keep in mind that even if they miss you, flashbangs are still AoE and itll likely get you down anyways), otherwise its completely nullified is good design. Like, without sunglasses you can still win against a flash, but unless the sec off has really shit aim theres no winning against a riot launcher if you dont have earmuffs and sunglasses. Also earmuffs depromote socialization due to them blocking hearing, and also requiring antags to rush earmuffs to stand a chance just promotes powergaming even more, Im unsure if this is what we want to promote our antags to be.

[cyberTripping]

-snip-

I feel it is relevant.  Wouldn't someone who says every little thing needs to be nerfed considered someone who just complains about everything anywhere else?

Suggestion threads are not "hash out your issues with the thread author" threads. They're threads for discussing the item suggested.

My point is that if their ideas are really without merit, they'll simply not get anywhere and will be forgotten, and pose no risk to game balance. The only time a suggestion from a thread will be incorporated is if a coder who has played long enough to understand the balance concerns and have the social clout to get others on board with it decides it's a good idea.

There's no reason to be antagonistic towards your fellow players freely posting a thread on a forum, unless you truly believe the little electricity spent to write the file down on the server was more valuable than open discussion. This is what Cal meant when they asked you to be more productive. Whether or not they're a "complainer" has no bearing on the discussion. Plenty of people I personally dislike have made posts on the forum I've wholly agreed with. Plenty of people I really like have made totally dogshit ideas. These are entirely separate.

[Cal]

nade launchers are already good by virtue of being a point and click grenade with no risk of taking too long to throw it. i also think moving them to the armory seems a bit overkill since opening the armory gives opens the floodgates to taking laser rifles & shotguns.

True. Didn't think about this. It's tough, I honestly don't want Secasses grabbing them since they're like "Oh, me not get taser, me get bloop tube" and just using it as a bootleg (better!) taser.
Perhaps a rack like the energy gun recharging rack? I honestly never see the egun charging rack get much use, which is a shame because the sprite is so nice. Perhaps it can also be id-tied to regular sec to hold the riot launchers and their ammo?

[Technature]

All I did was mention that I'm tired of seeing nerf threads, because they've been significantly more common lately, something that I clearly am not alone on when it comes to that opinion. I didn't mention anyone by name until it was dragged out of me.

I am not the one who started this insult fest, and it doesn't look like I'll be the last word on it either. You want to insult me because I didn't explain myself, then I will do so. If you want to insult me because you don't like that I explained myself, then don't fucking ask next time.

From now on, save us both the trouble and assume that I'm saying "It doesn't need a nerf, it's just fine" and move on, instead of trying to prove to me that you think I'm full of shit in the most roundabout way possible.

I tolerate enough shit in my life, I don't need to come on here just to hear how much you hate me.

[Cal]

Nobody is insulting you. Everyone is being very polite to you actually. I am sorry if my choice of words has made you feel insulted, but it was not my intention.

[BatElite]

A little unfortunate this thread got taken over, but on the buff side of things I think earmuffs shouldn't completely deafen you. It cripples trying to interact with anyone else but they're not useful if you're going solo.
Engineer me might actually opt for station bounced radio + muffs if the let me function amongst crew.

[TDHooligan]

i do think that earmuffs being a one-stop shop for complete sonic stun immunity is a little weird - they're short in supply, cripple the social aspect of the game for anyone trying to co-operate and are the only true immunity.

naturally this makes them very difficult to justify for regular players, but an invaluable target to rampage traitors who will not need to talk. in the same vein, it makes sonic grenades incredibly strong.

rebalancing them to make their downsides less bad for regular players while weakening their sonic immunity could be a healthy change. like repurposing them to be more like headsets with radio, but with reduced chat distance. could even be funny if uppercase came through as lowercase text, while lowercase text gets muffled. you keep the syndicate earplugs as they are and earmuffs could sit in a nice middle ground where players might even use them

[palpetinus]

Currently, putting flashbangs into a riot launcher is a straight upgrade in multiple ways:

No more arming, causing a very distinct sound and throwing - the perp/victim can prepare against or run away from a normally thrown flashbang
Increased range, although you can throw them far anyway
Detonation on impact, removing the timed aspect
Needs no more skill or "cooking" the grenade - no more danger of throwing too late or getting stuck on something while running after the opponent
Not an upgrade but: AoE stays the same (afaik?), not making it any weaker in that aspect either
Basically just stay far away and point and click the opponent for a huge disorient

What you get is secoffs rushing the riot launcher(s) every round because they're just so damn powerful. Additionally, you get the most powerplay-y of secoffs and antags breaking into engineering to counter flashbangs with earmuffs. They'd probably do that anyway (holding two in your hand and rushing the opponent works, after all) but it's a start.

I'd personally propose one of two changes:
Make the riot launcher halve the fuse instead of removing it. That way, deploying a flashbang with the launcher is still much safer than cooking it yourself, yet not as good as cooking it perfectly and throwing it.
Significantly reduce the AoE to a 3x3, or maybe a 5x5 radius at most. That way, you'd still have to actually aim the thing, at the very least.

[Jakson]

I’m gonna have to agree with Techna, I’m tired of seeing all these nerf threads for scenarios that rarely happen. I’ve got 750 hours and I don’t think ANYBODY has used the riot launcher flashbang on me. The mechanic is perfectly fine.

This is something we keep doing, nerfing things based on a specific once-in-a-lifetime scenarios that happened once or twice.

[cyberTripping]

I tolerate enough shit in my life, I don't need to come on here just to hear how much you hate me.

I don't hate anyone because of their opinions on a video game. I just want people to be a bit nicer to eachother in here. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.

[Ikea]

I’m gonna have to agree with Techna, I’m tired of seeing all these nerf threads for scenarios that rarely happen. I’ve got 750 hours and I don’t think ANYBODY has used the riot launcher flashbang on me. The mechanic is perfectly fine.

This is something we keep doing, nerfing things based on a specific once-in-a-lifetime scenarios that happened once or twice.

Dont you play on rp, where using the one tap game over gun and stuff like it (see rushing treads and insul being throwned upon, etc) is not only heavily throwned upon but can warrant you a secban/rp ban. I see that shit basically daily when i play classic. Hell ill admit I tend to use it as sec ass on classic cause its just that good. I honestly become the strongest sec member with that thing.