Removing Urine

[Cal]

Literally just ahelp the people that do this and let admins ban them, its gross on rp

[Azrun]

To me the Goonstation, the game, is goofy, wacky, deep, and absurd.

I think being cognizant of the reactions of others is important, especially if they can be quite visceral.  This becomes even more important when some of the interaction can be done in such a way that you lose agency.  Unfortunately this is all highly subjective.  

The slippery slope argument comes into play when it becomes unclear where the line is drawn in regards to non-offensive content.  I think it is a valid concern but I do want to echo Flourish and others in that future changes on this scale will likely be discussed/decided on a case by case basis.

Is urine gross? Yeah. Are farts gross? Yeah. But these are things that I’m willing to engage with. They are things that keep things from milquetoast in their absurdity at the cost of being edgy which I'm down for.  But I am a fan of potty humor.

Some of the behavior described seems like it borders on grief to me in the ability to hamper the ability of others to enjoy the game.  The types of people that are more interested in their own pleasure at the expense of others are the people that need talking to or shown the door.  Unless they are an antagonist (and even then…) most of the gimmicks described seem fitting for at least a brig visit if not an ahelp.  

Mechanically I think that kidney damage is interesting and can add some depth and possibly dissuade the casual pisser.  Additionally something similar could be done regarding farts where you fill up a little an atmos container in your butt that could scale on having eggs, re-fried beans, and … . Then if you try to fart on empty it could cause injury or butt loss.  Then we could flatulate on death.

[Mushroom]

For all that people are going 'there is absolutely no way this will lead to the removal of other things, slippery slope, let's all pretend precedent isn't a thing', the 'it's creepy and weird' side hasn't presented much actual evidence to go on. It's taken as a given that it's inherently creepy and weird, and if stronger evidence is needed it's "and some unnamed people have been particularly creepy and weird about it, no I won't go into further detail".

Also if you haven't seen people be creepy or harass people with piss, you havent played the game for long enough. Ive seen it excessively

do you push f1 when this happens

I do and plenty others do too, #rp-server on the discord has it brought up like once a week

[MomoBerry]

Also the amount of times I see bartenders/chefs mix small amounts of urine into everything they make or people pissing in bartender's glasses and leaving it out is way too high on RP. It's absolutely awful and something that happens consistently with newer, less RP'ing players discovering they can pee

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Also if you haven't seen people be creepy or harass people with piss, you havent played the game for long enough or arent looking closely. Ive seen it excessively

I guess? I don't really go looking for trouble or things that will upset me, so you got me there. If people are really upsetting me, I ahelp it and move along, there's no point being caught up in the stuff that makes you upset. Again, I said it before but I don't play RP at all cause I'm not a fan of the social stuff, I'm almost exclusively playing heisenbee. I really don't know what the climate is on RP, but reading this thread makes me really not want to go and find out, honestly.

tldr; report the people who are doing weird ERP gross stuff.

Also, Azrun made a good point with this;

"Some of the behavior described seems like it borders on grief to me in the ability to hamper the ability of others to enjoy the game. The types of people that are more interested in their own pleasure at the expense of others are the people that need talking to or shown the door.  Unless they are an antagonist (and even then…) most of the gimmicks described seem fitting for at least a brig visit if not an ahelp."

[Mopcat]

okay i know this is offtopic but how the hell is a thread about removing urine getting far more attention in just 48 hours than the vast majority of threads here. it's both amusing and confusing

[Leeanei]

As it turns out, people really value urine.

[Zamujasa]

okay i know this is offtopic but how the hell is a thread about removing urine getting far more attention in just 48 hours than the vast majority of threads here. it's both amusing and confusing

it is a self-sustaining spectacle of absurdity in which people go "wait, what, there's an eight-page debate on piss?", drawing more attention to it, which means more posters, which means it is now a nine-page debate on piss, etc.

[MoonJesus]

I think it's also the closest thing we have too poo, there's a group of people (myself included) who are worried about the potential removal of urine leading to the removal of other funny things which I think is why we care so much. There also seems to be a large amount of RPers in here (i can't imagine why else you would want this removed other than for RP). Look, in that regard I can understand removing piss - but on the Main server it's just another funny, gross mechanic like gibs and blood. Why do we need to sanitize everything unless for roleplay reasons? I said in an earlier comment if we're going to do that we might as well just have a separate 'roleplay' branch of the code then.

Edit:

That being said, we should also remove text chat and add canned chat with pre-defined phrases so people can't say slurs or gross sexual innuendos

also:

I also realize the 'we dont need weird people from reddit here...streamers watered down the community' comment came off... I really just mean I don't want people coming that have a problem with the mechanics and feel the need to start changing things that have existed for a while without issue.

Also I just kind of don't like the meme speech that was brought in from the streamer crowd. I do love the population boost we got and the fact that not everyone is a bitter salty vet like me now with lousy opinions and stances

[jan.antilles]

I think it's also the closest thing we have too poo, there's a group of people (myself included) who are worried about the potential removal of urine leading to the removal of other funny things which I think is why we care so much. There also seems to be a large amount of RPers in here (i can't imagine why else you would want this removed other than for RP). Look, in that regard I can understand removing piss - but on the Main server it's just another funny, gross mechanic like gibs and blood. Why do we need to sanitize everything unless for roleplay reasons? I said in an earlier comment if we're going to do that we might as well just have a separate 'roleplay' branch of the code then.

Edit:

That being said, we should also remove text chat and add canned chat with pre-defined phrases so people can't say slurs or gross sexual innuendos

Responding to this even though your edit makes it pretty clear you aren't engaging in good faith here:

People can think something is gross on any server. You don't have to be roleplaying to feel disgusted by something. 

Nobody has suggested "sanitizing everything" except to make slippery-slope fallacy arguments along the same lines as your post.

At the end of the day, the question is "Do enough people feel offended, disgusted, or put off by Thing X that we as devs/admins feel that it outweights the value that Thing X is adding to the game by existing?" For poo, the answer was Yes. For the ability to tweak your nipples, the answer was Yes. For pee, up to this point the answer has been No. The intent of this thread is to prompt the devs/admins to consider the question again.

[Spoodle]

This is a very long thread with a lot of different perspectives. Even though I'm not very involved in the game anymore, I'll throw in my 2c:
1. I think excessive pissing damaging one's kidney's is a great idea. A good way to stop piss-floods.
2. I think allowing players to filter things is also a great idea. It allows people to tailor their own experience, without effecting the experiences of others.

I also think at this point we should just do a community vote, but I feel like it could get kinda awkward, so maybe somebody/some-people should just work on coding the filter thing instead, if it's not too gargantuan of a task?

[Mopcat]

kidney damage from excessive pissing is a great idea. just something, anything to discourage unfunny clowns from coming into the rp server and filling an entire room with urine while also going out of their way to not interact with another human being. we had like, three in a row yesterday. it's the kind of thing that's funny the first time you see it and and then gets old pretty quickly when it keeps being done over and over and you just want them to please do something that isn't piss in a 1x1 cube please

i also want to point out that, so far, nobody has legitimately suggested scrubbing the game clean of all offensive and gross content aside from urine other than slippery slope fallacies that, at this point, feel like they're being made in bad faith. nobody is suggesting that we remove farts, blood, gibs, or vomit next. please stop acting like people are, because to me at least it comes across as very Asshole-ish. blood, gibs, and, to a lesser extent, vomit are, in a way, a big part of the game's environmental story telling. the blood and gibs tell a story of "oh geez, Violence has occurred in this location, i should call security and a janitor and maybe keep my distance until things are resolved". blood also acts as a vital component of forensics and health (and to a lesser extent, combat). vomit? i dunno, i guess the story it tells is "someone who was ill, poisoned, or picked up a crippling addiction at the bar has recently passed through here" though really i'd say the purpose it serves is more "this person is ill and should see a doctor" or "janitor employment". the farts are another can of worms entirely and removing them would be another issue (see: atmos) and i think that topic is for another bafflingly long thread about farts instead of pee.

it's safe to assume that most people here have played enough Violent Video Games to not be grossed out/offended by virtual blood and guts, and unlike a room full of urine, a person defiling a bible with their Ass Gas and thusly exploding into a spectacular display of blood and meat chunklets never really gets old (at least to me). and if you ask me, pee... doesn't really have much merit. if anything most of its existence so far has been enabling creeps. the few things it's actually used for can easily be changed to use another chem. many people just seem to find it gross rather than funny. at the end of the day though this is a Developer Decision and i still don't mind reporting people who are creepy/gross/actively nauseating about the ability to urinate and then watching in complete apathy as someone gets sick of their shit and beats them to death.

the toilets need to stay though. shoving someone's face into a toilet and flushing it repeatedly is an important aspect of the station's penal system and the clown/staffie gameplay loop and removing that would throw the entire thing into shambles /hj

[zjdtmkhzt]

Big agree on what Jan said, I'd really appreciate a change regarding vomit more than I would one regarding urine.

[Mopcat]

the sheer amount of vomit a single human being can produce as a result of a drug addiction alone is quite astounding. somehow spacemen are able to empty out their entire stomach contents and not only refill said stomach at a constant rate, but experience no negative effects when it comes to nutrition or hydration. astounding.

[GORE]

Janitors need some filth to work on...that is their whole job.

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i also want to point out that, so far, nobody has legitimately suggested scrubbing the game clean of all offensive and gross content aside from urine other than slippery slope fallacies that, at this point, feel like they're being made in bad faith. nobody is suggesting that we remove farts, blood, gibs, or vomit next.

Literally the next post.

Big agree on what Jan said, I'd really appreciate a change regarding vomit more than I would one regarding urine.

[Ikea]

Janitors need some filth to work on...that is their whole job.

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i also want to point out that, so far, nobody has legitimately suggested scrubbing the game clean of all offensive and gross content aside from urine other than slippery slope fallacies that, at this point, feel like they're being made in bad faith. nobody is suggesting that we remove farts, blood, gibs, or vomit next.

Literally the next post.

Big agree on what Jan said, I'd really appreciate a change regarding vomit more than I would one regarding urine.

Theyre suggesting a change not a removal, being able to make cheese without using vomit is far from outright removing vomit.