I guess I'm just curious what set this off to start. I assume something about a chem-module borg, since that's where a lot of the ire seems to lie in terms of module reworks requested on the original post. I don't really know what to say about the chemistry borg; I don't want to be maudlin and sappy about this, but I'd like to lay out some thoughts and my experiences as a very, very frequent borg player.
I really, really enjoy where Brobocop is currently, stun mechanism and cuffs not-included. I specifically said wrt the PR that recently added more to Brobocop and Civ cyborgs that I
did not want to see restraint methods added to the cyborgs. I was thinking more along the lines of "now I can cuff people and dump them in a plasmafire room" and "You're cuffed and now I will be spacing you and you have no escape or way back" being a problem. However, Mordent also pointed out, very thoughtfully, that borgs cuffing people effectively results in perma-restraints too, as cyborgs can just nudge people around to reset the timers. I ticket things, I do the sec computer stuff, and I dispense oodles of burgers for a very busy team with no time to stop at the Cafeteria, and that's worthwhile and fills the "support" niche I think of cyborgs as fitting into, in a very nice way. I treat my time as a Brobocop as a mix of Detective and Morale-keeper, which gives me something wildly different from what I am able to achieve while playing as a security officer, since I usually am more high-strung and fast-moving. It offers a nice option for lower-stress Sec and contributing things no one else or few other people can in the course of a usual round.
For Chemistry, I would like to see an expansion to be a little more Research-inclusive and give some other options for an all-around Research borg; I've done ArtLab tinkering as a borg, but I recognize there could be more "support" stuff added for the purposes of Telescience. I think any Toxins adds would only magnify any potential bad effects from Chemistry currently, and also maybe cause an inherent Law 3 problem in that the idea of Toxins is Blowing Things Up, and cyborgs shouldn't desire to be Blown Up. Maybe to pare it down, I see Toxins additions as only being perhaps useful specifically for the purposes of Being Rogue and Being Very Destructive while rogue. Chemistry is also the lightest module with the fewest unique tools, so more research stuff could be fun.
Here's where I break with your observations: I don't see chem modules abused in a way that is significantly noticable. I just don't. Whether a cyborg can and will create a magic mix to delete everyone when rogue is, to me, tangentially related to their being a cyborg. It is, however, very, very related to their knowledge overall of chemistry. If someone knows magic mixes or secret chems to use as a cyborg, then they know them. And they know and can access them as a non-cyborg too; and so the problem there isn't being a cyborg and accessing those things; the problem in my eyes is that the people who would play a chemistry cyborg and know a magic mix specifically for when/if the scenario occurs that they were rogue and could destroy things has a significant overlap with the people who would play chemistry as a human and know a magic mix for when/if the scenario occurs that they were a traitor and could destroy things. That's not really anything about the roles. That's everything about the players. And I don't see cyborgs doing much chemistry junk in general. I can't remember the last person other than me who I saw with the module. When I take it, I make medical stuff, and sometimes futz around with making drugs, glitter, and pure love.
On that note, about the UI, I actually do like the current cyborg chemistry UI, not for any inherent gameplay reasons or that I think it's a "challenge that's meant to be overcome"; I have trouble reading through all the reagents on the TGUI chem dispenser; scrolling in the cyborg chem UI is a lot easier and a lot less eye strain for me, and I am less likely to make mis-clicks and mistakes because it's a little more deliberate. I'm not dead-set on keeping it the same if everyone else hates it a ton. I just find TGUI is often really difficult and straining for me to read, and the horizontal + vertical buttons make everything a lot more difficult to parse to find what I want.
EDIT: I forgot my maudlin sap, but I wanted to say here: I like Chemistry module mostly as-is with regards to Chemistry capabilities and tools, because it really does make me feel like I'm back doing chemistry again, being precise and having 4 containers of Separate Things that I'm diligently mixing. It's totally a personal take, but I really enjoy that it feels like the real-life thing.
Some other thoughts in response to others here!
(12-25-2020, 04:14 PM)Varali Wrote: ...a charger, a donut dispenser...
...Maybe a ticket gun? Load a ticket into it, fire it onto a player to have it stuck to their back so everyone can laugh at the person for their crime? Some more Security Officer oriented support things, maybe those fancy GPS locators so Security Officers can implant themselves with Tracking Implants and the Cyborg can locate them easily? There's a lot of potential and I just want it explored is all.
All of these are fabulous ideas I am totally in love with.
- I'd like better ability to recover my team, which I think ties into how Brobocops also currently have camera tools to keep tabs on things.
- I think a ticket gun wholly fits the current theme of them too, giving something to be exciting for security work, but also goofy.
- I would like a charger, and maybe a way to swap cells for officers? Like, the Brobocop comes standard with a 300u power cell in a charger, and if someone leaves a baton or something on the floor and you bop it with the charger, it'll "swap" the cells and you begin charging the used one up from your own battery? Maybe a check on the cells the charger can accept to make sure it can only take the Security 300u and 200u ones and no art cells or potatoes or anything silly? This allows the cyborg to join the team on-foot and around the station without making them into an officer! This is also very good for if there's two Brobocops; one can do cameras and detective work, and the other can do support stuff around the station!
- I love the donut dispenser; the current food synth on Brobocops can make normal donuts, if I recall correctly, but I would be 100% down to remove/reskin the food synth to make a donut-specific dispenser, and maybe even have options for the kind of donut to dispense, including maybe a robust donut or two per full charge of the cyborg battery. If art cells were nerfed or made incompatable, I think this would work nicely! It also resolves some loose ends of the endless-food-creation process on the RP servers, while not totally defeating the Brobocop's ability to provide snacks in a tight bind for busy officers. (I also really, really like the NTSO's candy hearts and want to take this moment to plug that those could also be an option for the donut dispenser, just as a cute morale thing; I think it'd be really nice to make the crew happy and cheer everyone up with those!)
(12-26-2020, 05:14 AM)Camryn Wrote: At *best*, they're a forensic assistant with some mild sec support tools.
(12-26-2020, 06:16 AM)Tiggersaurus Wrote: Maybe do the brobo more towards like detective then? Luminol spray? Ways to help investigate?
As for the chem ui. You can't remove reagents easily or do chem groups when you're trying to support medbay. They can't use the reagent extractor or chemmaster anyway so I don't see why they can't use the normal ui to streamline.
As for the workaround, given an *admin* was the one to tell me about it a year ago to help with mediborg? Fix it once the Borg UI is brought up to date, not before.
I usually skew my Brobocop in the direction Camryn describes it, ie: Detective. I do think if that's the intent, there's maybe something more to be given there, and I like the idea of a luminol spray and/or a BloodTrak like Tiggy and others offered! I think there's even room to add those things, and still tailor the other Sec traits too; if things had to be removed to make room, I would be okay with focusing on one of the "griefy" things first, like the sound synth or stickers. I think it's also totally okay to remove the camera monitor. Not unlike Security Officers, if a cyborg had to use the computer instead and couldn't check without being in HQ, I don't think that's so terrible. It just means whoever wants to be camera-monitoring Brobocop also likely will need to be Home Team for Sec, which most people do anyways by manning the desk, doing quick processing things, or organizing food at the HQ.
My last thought is I'd love to see the cyborg interaction UI fixed/consistent, and I know there's some stuff for that being worked on, but I do definitely have primary concerns about the morgues and the ladders. Actually, if the morgue thing was streamlined, I wouldn't even be bothered by still not having ability to do genetek or cloning scans (if someone was a puritan, I wouldn't want to be able to maliciously and instantly check records and then shove them into the scanner to kill them off permanently; I also absolutely fear the ability of cyborgs to genegrief people). Morgue UI being streamlined, in my mind, would fix this, since you'd be able to then just store people who can be cloned for a later time when someone who can interact with the scanner is around. I mean, you can now, it just isn't super obvious, as others mentioned.
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