(12-25-2020, 05:10 AM)Mopcat Wrote: 3. give secborg their fucking masking tape you evil creatures. they can already summon beepsky to do the dirty work for them, why not skip a middleman when it comes to restraining?

(12-25-2020, 05:10 AM)Mopcat Wrote: so, me and a few other people on discord noticed a trend of the admin/dev team effectively shutting down a lot of discussions and changes regarding cyborgs, especially security and syndicate borgs, both of which are very underdeveloped and not as useful or fun as they could be.

i think a lot of this stems from how powerful borgs can make themselves and how a borg that's fuckin STACKED themselves on upgrades enough can be effectively unkillable and inescapable, and rather than actually look into this issue and balance it, the admins have taken the stance of "no just don't fucking touch those stinky bots". so instead, let's actually look at the issues surrounding borg:

Quote: 3. give secborg their fucking masking tape you evil creatures. they can already summon beepsky to do the dirty work for them, why not skip a middleman when it comes to restraining?

Quote: 4. make dying as borg less painful. come on, their heads and brains don't even default to the top of the item stack they leave behind when killed! that, and there's little consequence to just eating their brain and taking them out of the round permanently. plus the existence of bugs than can also permanently kill a borg without any intention to do so from humans, which people are reluctant to fix for one reason or another, such as brain code resembling a very large bowl of spaghetti, except without the 'bowl' part because that implies some uniformity. mayhaps a way to make borg death less permanent, and make their brains always infect their eaters with (unextractable) kuru or nanomachines (resulting borg potentially controlled by the owner of the consumed brain so people don't just eat borg brains to easily be borged) so that people can't just take a player completely out of the round so easily without consequence

(12-25-2020, 05:42 AM)Tiggersaurus Wrote: what was the point of the masking tape being added it it's never used (yes I know admin spawn only but let's be real that's never being used)

(12-25-2020, 05:42 AM)Tiggersaurus Wrote: Gerhanzo - you know they mean brobo, the one with sec Comms.

Quote: and rather than actually look into this issue and balance it, the admins have taken the stance of "no just don't fucking touch those stinky bots".

• Fix all the Spontaneous Core brain bugs. So many times I've seen them not work when a Cyborg gets put into a new shell, requiring admin intervention. Might happen to other brains too, but mainly seen it with Spontaneous. There's a lot of weird bugs surrounding them for some reason.
  
• Fix the Cyborg death alert spam. Every now and then a Cyborg dies and it sends death alerts forever, forcing all of Medbay to ditch their PDAs or mute the group. Might only happen when the head is destroyed and the rest of the body is intact.
  
• Streamline Cyborg clicking and dragging. Vast majority of Cyborgs still don't know you can use ladders, open morgue and so on. Also let them empty boxes onto the floor please. MAYBE let them drag people into clone scanners and genetek scanners. It's incredibly obscure what you can and can't interact with because some things you can shift click which nobody knows about, and others you just can't.
  
• Tie PDA groups into modules, give all PDA groups (muted by default?) to AI. The fact that silicon mains have to every round setup a MechComp contraption for this is very telling that it needs to be a thing already. Also give them party line, so they can suffer. Silicons need to be able to see mailbots, and also maybe have Cyborg death alerts get sent to all silicons.
  
• New Cyborg parts? I love the screen head PR, but why not more types of limbs, chests, bits and bobs? Extendable arms, legs that can be retracted to allow them to get on the floor (fuck you plastic flaps), heads that can emergency eject, chests with a single inventory slot (store money, dolls, illegal goods or pipebombs.)
  
• Rework Chemistry module. It's a lackluster module that nobody uses. Combine it with Medical and let them use regular ChemDispenser UI, or let them use regular ChemDispenser UI and give them more of a Research role. Toxins equipment (tanks? pressure crystals?), Artlab equipment (a shocker, a heater, a data tape?), Telescience equipment (camera helmet, camera, adventure equipment, GPS).
  
• Add some Brobocop-related stuff. I don't want to give Cyborgs flashes, cuffs or guns, but Brobocop is too Brobo and not enough Cop. I'm sure there's SOMETHING we can do to make them more interesting to play. The most Brobocop mains I've seen just sit in Security to mark people for arrest since there's little else they can really do other than door stuff. A tool that instantly closes all doors in that room/summons a single Securitron/turns off all lights? Anything for self defense? Luminol spray, bloodtrak, the ability to robotically monologue? (Not like the det ever uses them) Medical have defibs which can drop someone for a second and make them drop their weapon, something like that would be nice.
  
• Expand on Mining module. Let them upgrade their drill, or give them one that can EVENTUALLY break higher toughness rocks. An upgraded geological scanner that lets them examine rocks far away to see what ore it is? A mini mineral accumulator? Let them use the telescope console without standing next to it? Maybe give them some sort of ore radar? More stuff, they're rather barebones.
  
• Engineering module love. Let their RCD work like a RCDD when it comes to airlocks. Current Cyborg RCD can only make vertical, maintenance airlocks with no access or name. Give them the RCDD features to pick a skin, name, make horizontal airlocks, but leave the access out so they need to involve the HoP. Also maybe make the Construction Worker module able to fabricate or buy via traders or merchants, or give the planners to Engiborgs (I'd prefer the former).
  
• Syndicate Cyborg Expansion. Either make it a unique module with some devious tools, or make it modify all normal modules. Make their laws a bit more fun, maybe give Nukies a very fun unique Cyborg. Anything really, there's a lot of potential here.
  
• Security Cyborg take two. I know, a lot of people despise the idea, but why not have a NT Cyborg that is latejoin only, HoS whitelist, instantly explodes if you shoot a human? Or give the HoS a special Cyborg module that they can give to a Cyborg that gives them, I dunno, a flyswatter and ectogun equivalent? I don't really want them to have guns, flashes or cuffs, but I don't see why NT wouldn't have some sort of Security model. I do feel like Brobocop is the better way to go, but it needs a hefty expansion still I think.
  

(12-25-2020, 11:31 AM)UrsulaMejor Wrote:

Quote: and rather than actually look into this issue and balance it, the admins have taken the stance of "no just don't fucking touch those stinky bots".

What a wonderful Christmas present; to not only diminish the team's existing cyborg rework ideas and efforts, but also turn around and make up a team stance on the matter that doesn't exist and is the exact opposite of the team's expressed opinions.

This certainly endears me to your suggestions.

(12-25-2020, 05:10 AM)Mopcat Wrote: 1. default to standard chem ui. the borg chem ui is atrocious and nobody likes it. seriously. how this is still in the game is beyond me. borgs can already use the standard chem ui with a few extra steps and nobody seems to have a problem with it, so... why not just default to that?

(12-25-2020, 03:49 PM)cyberTripping Wrote: i'd definitely appreciate the borg chem ui being overhauled. Not to the standard for a variety of balance reasons

(12-25-2020, 03:49 PM)cyberTripping Wrote: I'm very against security borgs, and already don't really like the apparent power creep going on with turning the brobocop into a more capable part of security as opposed to a gimmick that, incidentally, can serve as an extra set of eyes for sec. I could maybe see the donut dispenser mentioned as a fitting addition, but I really don't like the idea of the bot getting restraints, pepper spray, or anything else approximating sec gear.

(12-25-2020, 03:25 PM)GORE Wrote: Another aspect - yeah - no. Security is for humans to keep and not for borgs.
I dislike the trend to essentially turn the chem-borg into a human for chemistry and the party-borg into a security-human.
Borgs and humans work differently and cater to different styles to play...but when one plays borg all the time and wishes to turn them more into humans by bridging those differences closer together...than I can only recommend for that person to switch from playing borgs to be playing human.