this is a controversial opinion: auto-menders aren't very good

[GORE]

Automenders really are not the culprit of any problem that is currently urgent on Goon.
They are fine. They hold chems and do their job.

[Zamujasa]

I had a long post here of testing but the forums ate it, thanks!

Here's the gist. All done at 0.4 tick lag (the "normal" speed; goon2 tends to run at 0.8 or 1.0 lately)

Menders for brute/burn:
- test case: 100 BURN
- 200 units of chems
- healing 100 HP of brute/burn takes about 20 seconds and uses 100 units
- moving or being moved interrupts this, and it starts slow at first and speeds up after the first few passes


Patches (type /obj/item/item_box/medical_patches/silver_sulf)
- test case: 100 BURN
- 5 patches (box comes with 10)
- full heal in about 20 seconds; tons of overheal
- took an additional 100 burn damage to test
- by the time all patches vanished off mob, ~70 HP
- a while later, ~99 HP


Hypospray for tox with charcoal:
- test case: 100 TOX
- 30 units
- instant delivery of dosage
- takes about 135 seconds to heal 100 damage; some overhealing (about 3 units left over)
- anti-tox reserve tanks come with 100 units, so you get a little over 3 full doses

Hypospray for brute/burn:
- Test case: 50 burn / 50 brute
- 30 units
- took about 135 seconds too
- lots of overheal - only about 11 units were actually required to hit 100%


Menders are okay, but if you're complaining that people are using them to heal themselves, maybe you should consider... I dunno, bumping into them? Any movement will stop the process and require it be restarted at the slowest speed.

[Sundance]

The bumping into them analogy doesn't really hold water. People aren't using menders in direct combat. You run to some begotten corner which on the station is aplenty and just do it there.

The issue that I have with meders is the muted interaction, you stand still and use mender and just stand some more. It's not very engaging. Whatsoever. 

I would approve of lowering the internal size.

Edit: The comparison kind of highlights the problem. While the time + consumption for patches and menders are equivalent (20 seconds and half their consumption), the replacement for them is not so comparable.
To replace your mender, all you have to do is refill it.
To replace the patches, you either have a spare pack of patches or have to get more patches, either by medvend, raiding the health pack (both of which can be in limited supply) or by making your own patches.

Also inventory space is a massive plus for the mender too. Your example you used 5 patches which were likely inside a box. On your belt, you could fit 5 patches, or 1 mender. It's a clear winner here, but I don't think that this is something to be removed, just considered in the wider picture.

Lowering the internal size will make the mender is a little more finicky but I think it may be more engaging to keep it topped up and switching to alternative methods if running low.

Double edit holy shit: As a balance suggestion, lowering the internal size but balancing this if not used on yourself reduces the current wastage by a factor would make the mender more unique vs patches.
Patches would primarily used to heal yourself and others in a more combat oriented scenario or EMT (i.e doctors patrolling), while menders are used by doctors in Medbay HQ primarily to heal others, with refill options on hand.

[Drago156]

I think it should be noted that styptic and silver sulf both can be relatively quickly made with just a chem dispenser. From there you can make whole patch boxes with both chemicals in a single patch. Also, a full box of patches (I think 15 or 20 max a box?) can be well over the chem amount of an auto-mender.

I have never myself had any problems with auto-mender usage except with a certain case: vampires. The annoyance there however didn't come from the healing but rather vampire abilities allowing them to reliably cancel stun after a taser hit or baton and quickly get away to just heal themselves up.

[moonlol]

patch boxes hold infinite patches btw. (or atleast used to, but i dont think it was changed unless like in the last few days). Making your own patches also allows you to up the amount to 30u per patch (ithink30isthemaxcorrectme)

[Zamujasa]

Patches and hyposprays are even less so? You click once and you're done.

If they're running off to heal themselves, you already lost. Do more damage.

[vampirate]

Maybe make it so menders are an item that can't be self targeted. You can patch to self heal, but someone has to use the automender on you.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

Or make it still possible, but just take significantly longer.

[Mouse]

patch boxes hold infinite patches btw. (or atleast used to, but i dont think it was changed unless like in the last few days). Making your own patches also allows you to up the amount to 30u per patch (ithink30isthemaxcorrectme)

Infinite patches.  Cap's 40u.

[Tarmunora]

Yeah, patche boxes (old and new) are just outright better than automenders are. I don't see how nerfing automenders would really change much, other than making it slightly more annoying to restock meds (print patches instead of refill mender)

[Frank_Stein]

Make automenders charge based.

You use it and it takes up battery power.

When the battery dies it stops working. Recharge or swap and have it ready to heal more.

You toggle it from burn or brute heal