Remove the Armory eguns. Replace them with... stuff

[BlackPhoenix]

EDITED: DON'T EMPTYQUOTE HUGE THINGS, GODDAMN. ALL THAT DOES IS SHIT UP THE FORUM.

[Sundance]

Nautilus, I actually took the time to read your effortpost, and it saddens me that you don't actually read my posts properly at all.

Sundance, I appreciate that you're clinging onto the idea HoS is supposed to be Judge Dredd, but its really something that has to end.

Funnily enough, I replace my ID with Judge dredd in conjuction with a gasmask whenever I get mindslaved.
It's funny because it's actually not in me to be a murderous supercop, in fact I am normally pretty peaceful and lax when it comes to anything. You'd know this if you played with me as sec.

I and several other Head of Security players agree that the purpose of security should be of a less-lethal nature

Again, it saddens me that you literally skimmed over what I said, and actually what others said too. I rarely, rarely, kill another player. But sometimes lethal option has to be considered. Please go ahead and tell me how you are going to stop a rampaging shambling abomination with a taser? Or a full blooded vampire? Or a syndicate pod that's shooting out escape? Or a stimmed up maniac? Or a rogue bot?
I know security isn't meant to stop everything, and I agree it shouldn't be so easy for a HoS to kill something, but hell, sometimes lethal fights can be exhilarating for both parties.
Also:

Also, I am now leaning away from the HoS getting an energy rifle in his locker if it means he can get lethal bruising (non bleeding) bullets in his locker, and bullets actually do damage against rogue bots. This way, it wouldn't be so easy for a stun --> switch modes --> kill, the HoS would have to empty out his spacker before going with the intent to kill.

You didn't read this did you? I am all for changing up the armory, giving stun spackers and tear gas and stuff.
But if anyone should be trusted with having a lethal option on the station, it should be the HoS. I don't see how you don't understand this. Lethal doesn't necessarily mean kill either. I normally fire lasers at a wizard because a) it doesn't instantly stun them and ruin their round and b) when they are incapacitated, I cuff and heal them. That's why I said there should be non-bleeding bullets in the hos's locker. Same with most of the shit I explained.

The moment riot shields came in..

but..

I don't know why people keep critising riot shields because they were awful. Concentrate on what was suggested here and now.

i.e: Stop comparing. Look at what I or weavel has suggested for riot shields. Stop looking back at the past.

It has become your agenda, be it even subconscious, to give yourself an advantage over everybody on the station just because you filled in an application. That line of thinking is horrid and it perverts the mission of the Head of Security role.

How droll.

All in all, your whole argument is pretty weak because
a) You didn't counterpoint any of what I said, you kinda just rambled.
b) If you did read what I said, you'd notice I am all for changing the armory up

[BlackPhoenix]

Right, before this turns into a shitty "You're a bad HOS" "No you're a bad HOS" contest, what exactly do Stinger Grenades do in real life?

[Sundance]

Right, before this turns into a shitty "You're a bad HOS" "No you're a bad HOS" contest, what exactly do Stinger Grenades do in real life?

I ain't calling anyone a bad HoS. And I totally agree, lets get back on topic.

Stinger grenades are like ball bearing grenades that are thrown into crowds to disperse them. They explode, shooting out little balls that bruise and sometimes pierce the skin. The blast would not stun someone, the pain however would make people run a mile away. That's why I'm a bit confused on how they'd be implemented, because pain isn't a factor in ss13. Giving them stun ability, well they'd be no better or different than a flashbang.

[Captain_Bravo]

Here you go, stinger grenades.

But no, seriously, Sundance I don't want to gang up on you, but I've been on the receiving end of your dredd justice before. I'm not saying you do it often, I'm not saying you're a dick about it. But I've been in a situation where you stun me, then laser me to death on the spot. No vamp, no changeling, no mindslave. Just a traitor with some fun toys and zero deaths getting a one-man firing squad. And I know I wasn't the only one that it's happened to.

I don't really have a horse in this race, (Aside from thinking that POLICE SHOTGUNS are AWESOME) but come on man. Don't strawman.

[Marquesas]

I'd bring up your actions against you Sundance, but I don't need to, your words contradict yourself. If something lethal does not kill, what does it do exactly? Honestly, I'd like to see you work for a full month without lethal weapons. I know I could. When I climbed the ladder as a normal security officer, I didn't feel the need for anything provided to me that could kill people, heck as a HoS I usually just leave all eguns in the lockers only to find myself staring down the barrel of one later. And it's fine that way, if I really wanted to take out all the traitors in a round, well, right now I could with a wag of a finger. Your suggestions, frankly, are mport level dumb - if you really feel the need to play security like that, why don't you just go over to a tg server and play warden? You'd have pretty much everything you suggested at your disposal.

Let's not mix my ego into this. I'm not on the receiving end of a cloud of mob that thinks I'm terribly wrong.

[Captain_Bravo]

I'd just like to state that I'm not part of the mob. I'm firmly against organized crime. I'm just a freelance provocateur, don't lump me in with anyone else.

[Sundance]

I'm going to step out of this, not because I think i'm wrong, but when a debate starts to get personal and people start attacking character instead of debating reason, then there's little reason to continue.
This is not what the Idea's & Suggestion's forum is about.

[FrontlineAcrobat4]

Hey can you fucking idiots not turn this thread into a list declaring why sundance is awful, jesus christ how does a request to add stinger grenades turn into a grudge match

[BlackPhoenix]

Hey can you fucking idiots not turn this thread into a list declaring why sundance is awful, jesus christ how does a request to add stinger grenades turn into a grudge match

What the corgi said, and please -PLEASE- don't respond with "Well I wasn't" because that'll perpetuate it. Just drop it.

Stingers would probably help by disarming you, because if I understand the concept it's the equivalent of being showered violently with BB gun fire. A little damage and a disarm, plus a sound effect that could easily be made by recording pouring some BBs on a metal surface. Somebody mentioned Tear Gas, and the way I could see it working would be -very- mild toxin damage and nearsightedness. Maybe a tendency to drop things I dunno.

[Cogwerks]

I actually don't see a goddamn thing wrong with Sundance saying the HoS should have at least one egun around, I fully agree and a bunch of you are being really fuckin' insufferable in this thread about some really uninteresting nerd shit. Knock off all the personal bitching or the thread gets locked. I fully encourage you to critique suggestions, but acting like it's a huge personal offense because someone made a suggestion you don't like about your precious little beret job is fucking embarrassing.

[Wydamn]

I like the tear gas idea as a serious crowd control mechanism. If it also induced temporary (30 second) near sightedness, that would be cool. More fun than lasers, more serious than flashbangs.


I don't really see the point in riot shields, since more convenient means of blocking projectiles exist, such as lockers or the porta-brig.

[Cogwerks]

Yeah, I don't really like the idea of riot shields much at all. Barricades are pretty fun though, maybe I'll put some rack parts in there or something, I dunno. I don't want to go the TG route and have a shitload of tools for every possible scenario in the armory, but some of the best fights I've seen in ages where from the bridge assault custom rounds I ran where the heads and security built a whole line of rack-trenches around the bridge and tried to hold their position that way. Maybe girders would work for that if they passed projectiles through them?

I'm setting up some tear gas reagent with a sorta complicated recipe. I'll make it cause eye blurriness, coughing, screaming and vomiting for anyone who gets touched by it without a gas mask on, and if it works well enough in a fun way, I'll put a couple pre-made tear gas grenades in the armory in a box or two. I think they'd fill a neat area-denial role, and the coughing will make people drop weapons they've got without the stun duration of a flashbang. It'll just be really tough to stay armed while inside that smoke cloud - but it'll be easily defeated by gas masks.

[Shoddy]

Yeah, I don't really like the idea of riot shields much at all.

the coughing will make people drop weapons they've got without the stun duration of a flashbang. It'll just be really tough to stay armed while inside that smoke cloud - but it'll be easily defeated by gas masks.

exactly what i wanted, sounds cool as heck!

[atomic1fire]

Why not just put like 50 sheets of metal in the armory.

They can use it to seal floors, build rack trenches, fix walls, etc.

Plus some of the other non advertised uses of metal, like building pipebombs.