Bump the shuttle ETD back to 3 minutes.

[Eibel]

Im of the opinion that departure should be longer, even as non traitor crew, we can shorten the shuttle timer, so having it short by default makes that mechanic kind of useless in my opinion.

I try my hardest to bring everyone I can to the shuttle, from folks who don't know where the shuttle is and need to learn that to last minute cloning someone and dragging them to the shuttle.

When you say " it is better for able-bodied personnel to assist in getting people to safety, rather then to try and patch them up in a failing station" i assume you mean between rounds, otherwise, WE are those able bodied personnel, dragging people unable to walk on their own is a bitch, and no, we dont have to do it, but its more satisfying to try to really quickly fix it than to say fuck it and leave people and situations behind, and if we get left behind trying to do more than 3 minutes of work: oh well.  We had 3 fuckin' minutes to finish and get to the shuttle, rather than 2 where if youre not already en route and done with yer shit, ya might as well just putz around till end of round, theres a high chance yer not gonna make it if youre not close already.

Lets make missing the shuttle your own fault, or an antag with good planning's fault, rather than a short timer's fault.

[Frank_Stein]

Replace the shuttle call with a station self destruct button. No survivors

[Studenterhue]

Replace the shuttle call with a station self destruct button. No survivors

For a moment, I really digged this, because it could make calling and recalling the shuttle into a frantic, deranged nuke armament/disarmament fiasco, like a mini nuke ops round. But then I realized I wouldn't be seeing all those swanky new CentComm offices and all their little details and easter eggs as much. I could still try all the tricks to get to Centcomm early, but I'd still lose my usual means of getting there.

Real talk though, I really have to side with Dyssal. Some people can prep up and be ready to leave within six minutes. But a significant portion of the community can't. They're not trying hard to "win" or anything, and the people who can aren't necessarily easy-going people or taking sleazy shortcuts. (They could, for example, just have nothing better to do)

It's not hard to accommodate these people and improve their game experience. aimple "The shuttle is arriving soon" reminder announcement can help them know when it's time to wrap things up (just like reminders in general). A three minute ETD is a comfortable amount of time to quickly finish up, get to the shuttle, and deal with any breaches or obstructions that may in the way, and it isn't going to hurt people who're already prepped and ready to go. (And for reasons Dyssal's already outlined, it's not going to lessen any last-minute treachery.)

There are alternatives/solutions, sure, to some of these time management issues. Transporting corpses to the shuttle via Port-A-Medbay or body bag rather than cloning/borging them, using teleport beacons/telepads to warp precious through the station, just letting things go and run their course--there's definitely plenty. But if somebody can't find any closure in them, I see no issue in it.

[The Grim Sleeper]

its more satisfying to try to really quickly fix it than to say fuck it and leave people and situations behind, and if we get left behind trying to do more than 3 minutes of work

Agreed, but I see no reason this should specifically be 3 minutes, over 2 minutes. There is a 6 minutes (2 if you discount the recall time) warning for the 2 minute sprint.

Really this is just a mindset adjustment: 7 minutes of faffing and 2+ minutes of running vs 6 minutes of faffing and 2 minutes of frantic running.
And it's not over if you miss the shuttle, you can still teleport on board, provided people have brought a tele-beacon.
One of my funnest rounds was dragging a corpse to escape, missing the shuttle, and then dragging the corpse all the way around.

Im of the opinion that departure should be longer, even as non traitor crew, we can shorten the shuttle timer, so having it short by default makes that mechanic kind of useless in my opinion.

Lets make missing the shuttle your own fault, or an antag with good planning's fault, rather than a short timer's fault.

Good points.
Even when I have 3 valid IDs, I rarely have enough time to slot even 1 of them in before the timer drops below 60s.

Probably worth adding to the discussion: the real reason the ETD is now 2 minutes is so the recall-2-round-end time is exactly 10 minutes (6 for the shuttle to arrive, 2 to leave, 2 to travel).
It used to be exactly 15 minutes (10 for the shuttle to arrive, 3 to leave, 2 to travel). I'm not sure to what extent OCD is a design principle for goonstation, but in this case, it should not be used, if the result is frustrated players.

[Firebarrage]

I'll chime in to support the two-minute timer.

1) It's an emergency evacuation. You are supposed to be getting out of there ASAP. Hanging around too long is just asking for trouble.

2) You don't have 2 minutes, you have 8. Plan ahead you doofus.

3) Watching people run for the shuttle and miss it is hilarious.

[warcrimes]

2) You don't have 2 minutes, you have 8. Plan ahead you doofus.

this. it's not rocket surgery, just stop turbonerding and actually mobilise when you should. 
maybe you're in a lucky position where you get to wait around the escape wing for 5 whole minutes, good, help those who are less fortunate. If you wait till the docking signal before poking your head out and can't make it because of a breach, good riddance, you didn't deserve the ride anyhow. You weren't planning to help anyone else escape anyway. 

/rant

[Roomba]

An idea for a compromise: in addition to being able to quicklaunch the shuttle early, heads can also delay the shuttle launch for up to one additional minute.

Also reduce the number of heads required to two because on lowpop rounds it's rare to have three heads at all, let alone all three in the cockpit and in agreement at the same time.

[Technature]

After seeing the back and forth, I think I'm leaning towards 2 minutes. You have 8 minutes to finish whatever you're doing, get prepared for potential obstacles in the way, and board the shuttle. The only reason you shouldn't be able to make it is if you're trapped somewhere off station, like a telescience adventure, in which case you're probably not making it with 9 minutes anyway.

[Studenterhue]

just stop turbonerding

This is the kind of perspective I took issue with when I agreed with Dyssal about the "easy-sleazy try-hard winner" thing. When I'm trying eek in some last-minute clonings/borgings or squeeze in a few deep-frying sessions, it's not because I want to gain some sort of advantage or win against the antagonists. In the former case, it's because I want to help out those who were really bummed about dying; in the latter, it's because I want to make some great treats to share with people on the shuttle ride home; and in both cases, it's something I enjoy.

I'm sure it's a similar case with Dyssal, Eibel, and many of the other people who want a revert. We're not looking to gain an edge. We're looking to have and give everyone a good (or at least a less terrible) time before the round's over, and we want one extra minute, just one extra minute to do it.

I can understand if some people think the real issue is that some of us just can't manage our time correctly, that the system works and we're the ones that need to change. I can see the basis; in real life, if you missed the bus because you were busy, it's kind of your fault, you ought to try to finish in less time, and the bus shouldn't have to wait for you at the expense of people who are in hurry to get to their stop. I have to deal with this on a daily basis. If this idea dies and/or gets officially struck down, I wouldn't mind adapting.

But I think the system, or rather the change made to it, doesn't work. The reduction hasn't deterred antag shenanigans
for reasons Dyssal already explained. The one minute shaved off hasn't helped the people who take off at the docking alert (if the issue is that people aren't packing up soon enough, reducing the time they have really isn't the best solution--some sort of reminder/alert to get ready would be better) or people who've taken the whole 6 min ETA to prepare and get the station (one less minute of waiting is barely much of a change, unlike the 10->6 reduction).

An idea for a compromise: in addition to being able to quicklaunch the shuttle early, heads can also delay the shuttle launch for up to one additional minute.

Also reduce the number of heads required to two because on lowpop rounds it's rare to have three heads at all, let alone all three in the cockpit and in agreement at the same time.

Both sound ideas that fit the needs of both camps. People who need/want to give people more time can ask for it, people who want to get out ASAP can still reduce the timer and block people who want more time, and both can do so easily.

[Vitatroll]

Replace the shuttle call with a station self destruct button. No survivors

The most sensible idea here, imo.

I stayed out of this since I'm on an extended break, but this is just silly. Assuming you still have 5 minutes of no-recall time, that gives you 6-7 (out of 6-8) minutes to shit and get off the pot. Has the no-recall time changed? I'm confused.

Would this still be a problem if the escape shuttle was permadocked to the station and we only had the 7 minuted ETD timer? It just feels like growing pains.

[warcrimes]

just stop turbonerding

actual thoughtful non-shitpost

I see two main issues with the argument. 
First just wanna reestablish that the shuttle shortening is the most noticeable when the round is boring and you just want to reset, and don't wanna wait another 14 minutes for that. 

The bigger issue i take with the "it's just one extra minute please" side of things is that a round already lasts between 30 and 120 minutes, and even the average of 1h fluctuates by 20 minutes easily. Functionally, the round can end at any time, and the shuttle time just changes how far back from the end you're informed it's ending (except, of course, for the boring rounds where you *want* to end it asap, then it's a delay)  adding a minute to the notification shouldn't realistically change a lot when your round is 20m shorter or longer than you'd expect it to be, but it makes a huge difference when you're just grumping in ghostchat waiting for murderfacemcmurderboner to recall for the 10th time. 

The change is QoL for those who are out of the round, In-round it's just as arbitrary as the time it takes to bomb medbay in the first place.

[Frank_Stein]

An idea for a compromise: in addition to being able to quicklaunch the shuttle early, heads can also delay the shuttle launch for up to one additional minute.

Also reduce the number of heads required to two because on lowpop rounds it's rare to have three heads at all, let alone all three in the cockpit and in agreement at the same time.

I do like this. There's a lot of reasons you might want to hold the shuttle back a bit on a per round basis

[NateTheSquid]

An idea for a compromise: in addition to being able to quicklaunch the shuttle early, heads can also delay the shuttle launch for up to one additional minute.

Also reduce the number of heads required to two because on lowpop rounds it's rare to have three heads at all, let alone all three in the cockpit and in agreement at the same time.

I do like this. There's a lot of reasons you might want to hold the shuttle back a bit on a per round basis

isn't this already a thing? when you scan a head ID on the shuttle thing theres a delay button as well isnt there. never seen it used though

[The Grim Sleeper]

Has the no-recall time changed? I'm confused.

Iirc, the shuttle can't be recalled if it is within 2 min of arrival on the station.
So the time to get a recall out is 4 minutes.