Minor Stand/Rest Magic Allows Self-Surgery Without Alcohol

[Zafhset]

No, self-surgery by alcohol was intended as a way for you to do surgery on yourself while standing upright/on the move without having to lay down at all as a form of emergency surgery (for shrapnel/head spiders). It is not related to the stand-rest self-surgery that requires an operating table to function - alcohol surgery was added in relatively recently in the past year or two whereas stand-rest surgery has been around for ages.

Self-surgery by alcohol was never intended to replace stand-rest surgery as the norm.
edit: In regards to people considering nerfing it, why? Making things slower/longer to do just makes it tedious, considering limbs get blown off on a regular basis and medbay is staffed maybe 25% of the time.

[Ed Venture]

Making things slower/longer to do just makes it tedious

If this year alone shows us anything, it's that a good portion of the community feels slow and tedious gameplay equals fun and interesting gameplay. Which is something I strongly disagree with now as this outlook on "fun" has been taken to the upmost extremes this year. Personally I don't feel there is any good reason to change how this works. Changes on existing things should make them better not worse aka tedious.

---

Unless of course something is OP but this is not OP this is an option to keep players in the game when they have no other option but to rely on themselves. It could be argued that letting players reattach their legs was made as an effort to have them avoid tedious gameplay.

[mbc]

edit: In regards to people considering nerfing it, why? Making things slower/longer to do just makes it tedious, considering limbs get blown off on a regular basis and medbay is staffed maybe 25% of the time.

 this is an option to keep players in the game when they have no other option but to rely on themselves.

Personally I don't feel there is any good reason to change how this works. Changes on existing things should make them better not worse aka tedious.

My intention is not to Nerf anything, I like self surgery. But, in my opinion, it feels like an exploit when executed properly. The exact method in which it get changed is not important to me. I know that it's in the game intentionally - but really, it's a quite obtuse mechanic and there are weird inconsistencies in the process resulting from lag. How would anyone ever figure out how to do this independently without being an expert at the game already?

This is a good option for a player to keep themselves in the game when they can't rely on anyone else, I agree with you there. However, this technique is locked behind the 'wall' of a weird quirk in the game engine. If it had a simpler method of execution, more players would be able to benefit from it (I'm sure that many of our players who don't browse the forums have no idea this feature exists, or have even heard about it and still failed to execute because of its relative inconsitency).

I really just want to give this feature some sort of 'premium' makeover to legitimize it and make it feel better to execute.

[Ed Venture]

I would be more than okay with changes that make anything better, like I said.

[Sundance]

I fully agree with fixing this exploit, but I'd also wouldn't mind if this exploit was coded in such a manner that's makes more sense.

It's a tricky situation. I understand from a balancing perspective that yes, docs aren't around, enjoy your lack of limbs. I just feel it shouldn't be THIS easy. A timer is a good approach, as suggested by MBC, but I'd feel like you should still be prone to a higher degree of fucking up than a doc operating on you.

My suggestion is that it should rely on some form of resource. Morphine is a good one. Morphine should significantly reduce the fuckup rate when operating on yourself. The plateau of morphine addiction should be increased to a much higher level, so you're not going to get addicted to morphine if you want to reattach your limbs, but could get addicted if you're trying to make yourself mechahitler.

[Lady Birb]

Doctors already have a reduced fuckup rate when preforming surgery.

[Sundance]

Doctors already have a reduced fuckup rate when preforming surgery.

They do, but I was talking about the broader scheme of things where you'd be specifically operating on yourself. So we're clear here's a list starting from the worse possible situation to the best possible situation:

Self surgery
Drunk surgery (not changed, as it can only be used for specific things)
Self surgery with morphine
Surgery with a non-doc
Surgery with a non-doc + morphine/anesthetic  (anesthetic works in a similar manner)
Surgery with a doc
Surgery with a doc + morphine/anesthetic

Note: This mechanic already exists somewhat. Morphine/anesthetic does reduce fuck-up rate and overall damage done during surgery. My suggestion is an addendum to self surgery where the fuck up rate is increased a tad, but also morphine works when operating on yourself, reducing the fuck up rate to a far more manageable level. 

[Frank_Stein]

Why not make self surgery capable everywhere by making scalpels, saws, and other medical tools usable in hand when lying on the ground?

Then, just give the surgery table itself a big boost in surgery accuracy so using it is beneficial for all kinds of surgery (self, doc, non-doc, drunk/sober)

[fosstar]

FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEATURE DON'T TAKE MY STAND REST SURGEY

[Tom Clancy's Gay Ghost]

Feature, I must be able to saw off my own head at a moment's notice

[Triacontakai]

Nonono. This is a feature!

[warcrimes]

idea: make it work at all times to take yourself apart, but require proper surgery / alcohol to put you back together.

Then you can have your tactical organ removal party trick

[Avack]

I'm very much fond of Sundance's idea. Comb out the weird janky system, and replace it with a more accessible one which still requires knowledge - but this time in the form of how to acquire the resource. Morphine seems a good choice: relevant, not overly often used, uncommon but available if you know where, and likely to slow you down if you don't get the dosage right.

Still, I wouldn't be heard complaining if the current way of things didn't change. I just think there are more sensible ways to go about it.

[Frank_Stein]

Yeah, the idea of taking this exploit feeling feature into one that works and feels more naturally is a good idea

[Hikurac]

I don't mind changes, but I'm against anything that makes self-surgery tedious, longer, and doing so for the sake of making it easier. It's a robust skill. Also, that's the trade-off. If you suck at self-surgery, either practice or get drunk and do it.

I believe timers and delays can be useful when balancing things that affect others. I.e., how fast you can place cuffs on someone or remove their clothes. But self-surgery isn't a feature that affects those around you. Having a delay serves little purpose, other than to make the player spend extra time waiting, with no tangible impact on gameplay.