SpaceNaba, LLJK US 2, 3 AM 5/8

[popecrunch]

hello i, too, am a non-involved admin, this is me tossing another vote in the 'jesus christ, dude, take a fucking hint, if THE ENTIRE SERVER'S PLAYERBASE feels like giving you the finger, and you're having trouble finding a single admin who would piss on you if you were on fire, maybe you should rethink your playstyle' pile.

So, y'know, if you act like a dickhead all the time, don't be surprised if people treat you like one.

I'm sure this is going to cause you to reflexively start typing up a grimoire about how we're all big jerks and we just don't understand, and how the players were being SO MEAN to you and if you look at THIS rule in THIS context and squint JUST RIGHT - stop it. Seriously, just stop it. Here's a nickel's worth of free advice - if you find yourself in a position where you think you're right and literally everybody else in the situation thinks you're wrong, there might be a reason they think that way

[ZeWaka]

Hi I'm here as a not-involved admin as well.

I really don't see you THAT much in game as much as other people, but from what I've heard about you from players I'm kinda glad I don't.
You don't really have much of a good reputation around here, with players talking about you carrying grudges from previous rounds or just other rude things like skirting the rules just close enough to act like an ass yet not break the actual rules. Like I say, a great summary of a lot of the rules is: "Don't be a fucking asshole." and I would say you definitely are not following that. I've heard too much bullshit about you to really say much else.

[Marquesas]

Congratulations. You managed to unite the entire server in an effort to ridicule you. This should've opened your eyes towards the fact that you may be viewed by everyone, as a whole, as a homogenous group of people with opinions that you are a problem person.

I remember you being an asshole and a generally unpleasant player to play with from back when I was a player.

I remember you being a generally unpleasant player to involve in gimmicks.

I remember you being a generally unpleasant player to deal with come admin discussions.

Your name pops up in the admin channel as often as I glance at it. Granted that's not as frequent as it used to be but it is quite damning.

Get your shit together.

[Isaacs Alter Ego]

I would argue that being a "fucking asshole" is fairly subjective. I do not think it is being a 'fucking asshole' if I break into some place as a non-traitor; that is generally what everyone does, every round. Nor is it it being a 'fucking asshole' to try and get borgs and AI to follow their law sets, and if they are not following said laws, to assume they are subverted.

I would however call it being a fucking asshole to hold a grudge against a player because they were annoying you in a previous round. There are quite a few players I greatly dislike but will still clone or strange reagent them if I find them in the halls, because I try to act as though the other rounds have never happened; going to the point of insulting someone personally for their behavior in space man simulator seems to be considerably more asshole-like behavior than being annoying while following in-game rules and guidelines. If the rule is simply "don't be annoying" then why doesn't it matter what I find annoying? I find having my ID stolen quite irritating. So should I adminhelp that, and then carry that grudge into the next round by copying that player's name down to the letter and making a nuisance of myself over the radio?

I do not care about my reputation. I follow the rules of the server and expect other players to do the same and when I'm told by the administration not to do a thing, I expect other players to be held to the same standards, which they are frequently not and I am ridiculed for 'whining' or being 'hypocritical' for expecting this. That I find considerably more "fucking asshole"-ish than say, demolishing a wall or stealing an ID.

[Marquesas]

I would argue that the rules are subjective because if someone is a persistently detrimental experience to other players, they will be dealt with. That is you by the way.

But by all means, don't take any of this seriously. Continue lawyering. Let fate sort it all out. If it comes down to a ban appeal in the end, at least we'll have several public posts showing you that we called it, we told you and you refused to listen.

Just to clarify in case people get edgy about this: this is not a direct ban threat for anything in this thread. This is a direct ban threat for your actions, however, if they don't change within a very short order.

[Isaacs Alter Ego]

So if rules are 'subjective' then is there really any recourse other than a ban? Several admins have said that I'm 'within the rules' or 'rules lawyering' or etc, but "detrimental" or "annoying" or other nebulous, subjective qualities, how exactly am I meant to change or correct any "wrong" behavior I have exhibited? Repeatedly I have been told by the admin staff to stop being 'annoying', a 'prick', a 'jerk' or other petty insults that have little to no real meaning. I would say that 99% of the playerbase is made up of annoying pricks and jerks, in fact.

I would argue that if something I've done is truly unacceptable, make it against the rules, so it isn't simply admins playing favorites as to who gets to do what. If I was more in line with the 'community' and thus more ironic/laid back/weed420everyday/etc, my playstyle would suddenly be considered fine or even hilarious pranking. In fact, many things I've done on the server that are 'annoying' are things that have been done to me in the past, or things I have witnessed being done, by other players. Not that I'm repeating that behavior towards the same players that have exhibited it, but I will use the gimmicks I've seen (and sometimes been told by the admin staff are 100% OK) in other rounds.

So basically I don't have whatever undefinable, vague quality you seem to want. I am a person who acts a certain way and isn't suddenly going to be more likable to you, because I either have no idea how, or no interest in being that way.

For the record, I still say Naba behaved inappropriately, I believe the personal insults of the admin staff are inappropriate as well, and finally, to paraphrase something once said to me by a wise, bespectacled fellow with long hair:

Let me just point out that saying you're not doing something while doing it does not make you not do it. - Marquesas.

You can say you are not directly threatening a ban for anything in this thread, but that doesn't make it true.

[WrongEnd]

BIG LIST OF THINGS THAT YOU NEED TO FOLLOW OR YOU WILL PROBABLY GET BANNED

1. Stop trying to twist everything we say and instead take the spirit of what we say rather than what you're doing now.
2. Seriously. Stop spamming ahelp when you don't get a response the first time. Not cool.
3. "WELL I DIDN'T SEE THAT GUY BANNED SO WHATEVER HE DID I'M GOING TO DO BECAUSE IT'S CLEARLY NOT AGAINST THE RULES" no no no no DO NOT DO THIS
4. What an admin says is the rule. Take the spirit of it rather than what you're doing now.
4a. If you think an admin is in the wrong, make a complaint and do not bitch if we look at it and say "No, it was justified"
5. Stop arguing with us constantly, christ.
6. Stop harassing people ingame, at least until you can learn the difference between fun harassment and shit harassment.
7. Don't whine so much. It makes me want to cut off my ears.
8. The rules are in place to stop most annoying players. The admins are here to enforce the rules and weed out the ones the rules missed.
9. So yes, an admin can tell you what is right and what is wrong independent of the exact letter of the rules.
10. Oh boy you used a gimmick gee whiz! Too bad you do not know the difference between funny and just plain rude and ruin said gimmicks. So stop it.
11. "X is subjective" no do not do this. Everything is subjective. We get it.
12. Calm the fuck down. You're having a fucking panic attack over people making fun of you by taking your name.
13. No, this list is not up for discussion. Do not try to argue it.
14. Adminhelp ONCE if a dude beats you up or kills you because of a past round. Not because you wanna be a whiny baby about some dude not harming you in any way by taking your name as a joke.
15. SERIOUSLY DO NOT ARGUE THIS LIST OR YOU WILL GET BANNED BECAUSE YOU DID NOT STOP IT
16. We do hold people to the same standards. The difference is that you are consistently an asshole about it.
17. Do not argue the definition of asshole. You're a smart guy, you can figure out how being rude is considered being an asshole.
18. Do not try to weaponize the previous rule to call me an asshole. I am being blunt. Plus it'll get you banned.
19. In fact, just shut up and keep your head down until you're not on thin-ass ice.
20. In short, you make stuff unfun and that's why we dogpile you.
21. Take a fucking hint, seriously.
22. DO NOT ARGUE AGAINST THIS LIST WHY DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS THREE TIMES
23. Stop trying to skirt around rules. You're beating around the bush and eventually the raccoons hiding in it are going to maul you.
24. "I DIDN'T TECHNICALLY MURDER THAT PERSON HE WHATEVER" no no no shut up about this. Beating up a dude to the point where he can't get out of a deadly area but technically if you squint right and align the planets so you only beat him up not murder NO NO NO
25. Making me write another list.
26. Making another admin write another list.
27. Arguing at us at all about this list. Four times. Get the emphasis yet?
28. In fact, admin verdicts are pretty well final. Don't argue it in adminhelp and make a complaint if you're so inclined.
29. "OH BUT SPACENABA DID THIS" no shut up. The rule is to stop creepy masturbation jokes and closet erpers. Whore is an insult, not explicitly a sex joke. Whore whore whore whore. Get over it.
30. Do not argue the previous rule. Don't do it. Seriously.
31. Again why is this list so big like seriously it is over 500 words why are you being this bad
32. "WELL YOU'RE THREATENING A BAN" well see the following
32a. The sploded variant we mentioned wasn't a ban.
32b. Nowhere in the thread did we say we were going to ban you. I have right here right now, yes, but DO NOT ARGUE THIS CHRIST FIVE TIMES
32c. Seriously why do I have to make subpoints just to get through your skull
33. "WELL WHEN I ANNOY PEOPLE I'M FOLLOWING THE RULES BUT WHEN I'M ANNOYED THEY'RE CLEARLY IN THE WRONG AND BREAKING THE RULES" shut up seriously do not say this. If someone is breaking the rules it will be dealt with.
33a. Yes, we're admins for a reason. We know the rules very well. When we make a verdict, please do not argue for hours about WELL I'M CLEARLY IN THE RIGHT BECAUSE IF I SKIRT THIS RULE HERE JUST BARELY AND... no no no no no
34. Why is this list so big I'm coming up to a thousand words why
35. In short, follow this list at least a little bit and stop being so annoying.
36. Yes, annoying is subjective. Do not argue about this.
37. When the entire playerbase thinks you're annoying, then you are being annoying and you should probably stop what you're doing.
38. Yes, you are being annoying by arguing the definition of annoying.
39. You can officially not complain about how oh so bad we are for not telling you exactly what to change because this list is telling you just that
40. Why is this list reaching 40 points why are you seriously this much of a shitter
41. Follow this list NOT TO THE LETTER BUT TO THE SPIRIT
42. This list is not allowed to be rule skirted. Follow the spirit. Emphasis.
43. The letter means jack fucking shit, understand?
44. What DOES mean something is the spirit, which also applies to the regular rules.
45. So no, you cannot rules lawyer. That is following the letter. You cannot rules lawyer if you are following the spirit.
46. Seriously stop arguing with us about this
47. 1000 words jesus fucking christ man get your shit together

[popecrunch]

Basically stop thinking of the rules as a legal system where you can find loopholes and think of them more as house rules for a game with friends. The spirit of the rule is far, far more important than the letter of it, and if you really don't understand the spirit, talk to an admin. Please note that with your reputation for rules-lawyering, whichever admin you contact is only going to be willing to deal with it up to a certain point - precisely the point at which they believe you're asking in bad faith. If this annoys you, well, you only have your own actions to blame.

Basically stop treating the rules as an obstacle to be overcome, and start treating them like 'yo do this shit / don't do this shit, or we're not going to invite you over anymore'.

Unless this IS how you look at rules when playing games with your friends, in which case I am truly sorry for your friends.