An analysis of the biggest problem with goonstation: apathy

[babayetu83]

from the few times ive played sec i found that the most effective solution was delivering a beating or two because after that they know not to fuck with you

[Technature]

Back then if we knew a rampager was about on the station we'd form a angry mob and give back up to any Security Officer there was. Now people can't be bothered to fight back most of the time and would rather fuck with Security then help them or stay out of the way. Which leads to barely anyone playing Security cause the player base treats them like shit and leads to players not even attempting to fight antags but fighting with Security and whining when the person they should be stopping kills them.

This is the biggest issue Security faces. Non-antag players who will commit crimes and then escalate the situation to a level where Security ends up chasing and fighting with them all round, thus ignoring the actual antagonists.

I've had Sec rounds where people jump on chairs and attack me and then get upset when I arrest or beat them for it. They then spend the rest of the round making a point of attacking me, interfering with my arrests, or eventually causing damage to the station.

I will admit to "messing" with Security on occasion as a miscreant but it only extends to breaking windows or other random acts of vandalism. Things that, if an officer chooses to ignore, will have no impact on their rounds. If they decide to focus on me, the most I will do is disarm intent and run away: never using harm intent or weapons.

I had a round recently where I had been arrested continually by an officer for unscrewing windows. I was trapped in a hallway with him and having been whacked with a stun baton, I lay there crying. An antag detective shows up and stun shoots the officer. I got up, pushed the detective over, and pulled the officer to safety. The detective gave pursuit and as he started to open fire, I jumped in front of the officer to save him. I was just a staff assistant and he was an officer, much better equipped at dealing with antagonists. So, why not take a bullet for him? I died. He lived. End of story.

I can say with confidence that I've been the officer in similar situations and it ends up where the non antag gets up and helps the traitor attack and kill me.

this. i like playing as sec, but if you arrest someone for something, they'll just whine and insult you, then they will make your round shit, interfering while you are arresting an antag, basically that's why most of the players hate sec

This is one of the big reasons, I think, that many people find sec unfun. If you screw up as sec and attempt to arrest an innocent, be prepared for a round of complaining from them.

People are utterly unforgiving of sec making mistakes, which is very easy to do considering the amount of chaos and confusion in an average round. It's not like these complaints are groundless at all, I've made some pretty terrible decisions in the heat of the moment, but no other job-role gets the level of shit sec does.  If players could see their way to being more forgiving when sec screws up, you'd have more people playing officers.

Holy shit yes.  This is why I only play security officer when there's just enough people to count on both hands, it's significantly much easier to deal with.  Last time I played sec on normal pop, the captain started harassing me and another security officer from round start and making our lives a living hell, interfering with arrests and helping prisoners get out of the brig early.  And of course, when a new officer comes on, he convinces that one to detain and demote me cause "Ya know, he's the captain" or some shit.

The absolute worst has to be being betrayed by a fellow security officer because you were trying to do your job (pretty much the BIG reason I avoid playing sec. in general).  It takes a few seconds to go on your PDA and check to see I started as an officer and wasn't promoted to it, and since Officers are the only role guaranteed to not be antagonists, it makes no sense why someone would take a single person's side over the officers, even if they're the captain.  (Of course several people complaining is a sign that the officer is just being an asshole and should be detained, but that seems to overlap with the "People hate security" problem, and it can easily be handled by accompanying the officer and yelling at him anytime he becomes a shitler, tazing when necessary anyways.)

[Musketman12]

Holy shit yes.  This is why I only play security officer when there's just enough people to count on both hands, it's significantly much easier to deal with.  Last time I played sec on normal pop, the captain started harassing me and another security officer from round start and making our lives a living hell, interfering with arrests and helping prisoners get out of the brig early.  And of course, when a new officer comes on, he convinces that one to detain and demote me cause "Ya know, he's the captain" or some shit.

The absolute worst has to be being betrayed by a fellow security officer because you were trying to do your job (pretty much the BIG reason I avoid playing sec. in general).  It takes a few seconds to go on your PDA and check to see I started as an officer and wasn't promoted to it, and since Officers are the only role guaranteed to not be antagonists, it makes no sense why someone would take a single person's side over the officers, even if they're the captain.  (Of course several people complaining is a sign that the officer is just being an asshole and should be detained, but that seems to overlap with the "People hate security" problem, and it can easily be handled by accompanying the officer and yelling at him anytime he becomes a shitler, tazing when necessary anyways.)

One thing I fucking hate with a passion is heads (like the captain) who break into sec, take a bunch of sec equipment and parade around like they are the HoS, generally being shit at the same time.

[Frank_Stein]

This is really turning into a sec thread

[Technature]

Oh, uh, so I can attest to the lack of apathy.

Yesterday I wrastled someone to death.  It was supposed to stay in genetics, but it ended up spilling into the hallway.  Two people saw it, but nobody knew what I was doing yet because both people said nothing over the radio (I'm pretty sure the radio jammer doesn't go that far.).  Particularly odd as the roboticist walked out twice, screamed both times as I was suplexing a man to death, and then went right back to work.

It struck me as a "What not to do when a murderer is killing your neighbor" kind of thing.  It particularly annoyed me cause I was trying to draw as much attention to me as possible.

[Ed Venture]

Hey I only said what I said cause this was turning into a "whine about rampages" thread and the apathy stuff kinda effects the whole game anyways. I just wanted to make it clear that the treatment security players get most of the time is one of the main reasons why most of the community no longer plays the role anymore and that's why rampages have been so large in numbers for years now. Honestly I don't see a solution to this issue. I mean I can think of one but I don't like it one bit and it could be argue that it's not even a real solution anyways and that's taking away freedom from antags and forcing them to do their objectives. If that happens I'm leaving goonstation forever as the freedom of Goonstation is the reason why I play here. But I doubt that will ever happen though.

It's going to take a huge community shift to get things back to how they were but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Till then I plan to do what I've been doing. Which is playing Security and the Clown roles all the time and trying to get the crew to defend themselves when I am a antag.

[atamusvaleo]

Play a security officer every once in a while and do your part to make it a better position.

It's as simple as that.

[Ed Venture]

Play a security officer every once in a while and do your part to make it a better position.

It's pretty much all I ever do.