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+--- Thread: Stronger AI [Synthetic] (/showthread.php?tid=8611)
Stronger AI [Synthetic] - YoukCat - 04-21-2017
There has been a lot of complaining on the forum recently about how weak the AI is, at least I think there has been. Along with that, I've been wanting a buff to the AI for a while now. So this is a list of buffs for the AI that could be done, and why.
AI BLUE STARTING SHELLS:
You know the ones. The tiny blue shells that are a pain to click on and have a robust screwdriver for stabbing and unscrewing nukes so everyone can die. Sadly, they're only really used if there's no borg/you need something pushed very slightly/pod-fighting. I feel that they could be made more specialized for the AI, but requiring more charging. This improves their basic categories and opens up more possibilities for the AI.
Charging at Drone Docking Stations: These shells have no way presently to recharge if I can remember correctly. This could bode well for them.
Much smaller battery: These shells also never actually run out of power. Seriously, I can't recall once that they've ever ran out of power on me.
Magtractor: Yep, I'm seriously suggesting this. With a tiny power cell of about 1,000 or less, they wouldn't be able to make of use of this for prolonged fights or serious warfare. The most it can do is perhaps turn on welders for welderbombs, but even then these tiny shells can't pull. Doing tests, however, this doesn't increase how fast the battery drains by too much on Ghost Drones. I suggest that this reduces more power as well.
Built-in GPS: Add a GPS designated as AI01 and AI02 on the GPS list to each of the two shells. Any more of them after would be AI03, 4, 5, ect. Up to a limit of 99, in which case I guess it starts back at 1 or something?
MORE AI SHELLS:
Not the tiny blue shells, what I am suggesting here is that the AI can directly enter the many small bots around the station. Even Beepsky. The AI would not be able to enter Emagged Bots. All of these would be at the very bottom of the list, so they don't get in the way of Cyborg Shells and the Blue Shells. Cannot enter guardbuddies.
Securitrons: Armed with Cuffs and a Stun Baton. Stun Baton has zero charge however can be used anyway, just like with real securitrons!
Firebots: Armed with a Fire Extinguisher. Great tool for forgetting how to turn off safety saving lives!
Floorbots: Armed with a RCD that takes 10 seconds to build floors and can only build floors, and floor tiles. Yay?
Cleanbots: Armed with an eternally wet mop.
Buttbots: Armed with eggs. Automatically farts every few seconds.
Medibots: Armed with a beaker of whatever is loaded into it, the four main beakers that medical borgs have, and a syringe.
MORE BOT CONTROL:
AI's have this cool program that totally goes unused that lets them summon bots to them with their PDA or whatever. It could use some love.
Bot Summoning: Can make beacons for bots using said PDA App.
PDA Safety Feature: Make the AI unable to take out this PDA Cartridge they need it the amount of times new AIs have done this
Rude Mode: Can make bots mini-emagged in a way. Toggleable. Can turn it on for one bot or turn it on for all bots, same with turning off. Rude
Securitrons stun baton everyone they see and cuff them UNLESS they are security or command. Firebots don't help. Floorbots don't build floors. Cleanbots mop random nearby floors constantly (Radio: JANITOR ROGUE HE IS SLIPPING RANDOMS). Buttbots stop farting. Medibots complain that everyone self-cares and go cry in medbay alone. Just like the real medical doctors do in this game.
APC OVERCHARGE:
A special AI only option in APCs, it would force all current power in the APC to flood into the electronics. Things like Vending machines would tip over on humans if adjacent, otherwise just tip over. Drone Docking Stations and Cyborg Charging Stations maximize the charge on anything inside them instantly. Rechargers fry the powercell and render it useless. Any other electronic being worked with does the equal of a Hotwired Engine Shock, only much less lethal. Doing this also bursts the lights. The effect would remain active a very short time, as it costs a LOT of power to do this. IF THE AI DOES THIS TO THEIR OWN APC OR AN APC CONTROLLING A UPLOAD OR RESET COMPUTER, IT WILL HEAVILY DAMAGE THE AI IN BURN. THE AI CAN SURVIVE THIS ONCE, BUT CANNOT SURVIVE THIS TWICE. Also they're out of power if they do it with their own APC.
QUALITY OF LIFE THINGS:
A few things to make the AI's life better.
Console Access: The AI has access to every console onboard, but can you please make another tab in the top-right for them all/stuff them in AI Commands so that the AI doesn't have to go search for them? It would include: The Security Filing Cabinet, the Medical Computer, the Dwaine, the QM Console, the Bank Console, the Telescience Computer, Everything I Missed, and that's about it. Along with that, let them use Genetics consoles even when not near them.
Arresting: The AI should have the ability to set all non-security and non-heads to arrest and set no one to arrest instantly from their AI Commands.
Vending Machines: Let the AI order out of the station QM budget out of Vending Machines.
Hacking: Let the AI fix broken wires with a button just like how they fix AI Control on doors.
WEAKNESSES:
All of these changes would easily make the AI quite powerful. The AI needs some sort of limiting factor on all of this.
Low Battery: Make the AI battery something like 500. It's currently 7,500 and it's VERY difficult to run out.
Safety Mode: From the Captain's PDA, be able to enable AI Safety Mode. This removes the AI's ability to adjust their turrets, their ability to enter shells, and their ability to set things to rude mode. It also takes everything out of rude mode. A sort of mini-lock down for the AI. The AI can still overcharge APCs and the like, however.
Please post what you think below, I hope that we can one day make the AI not only a door opener, but a door opener with the ability to fart on you with buttbots.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Cirrial - 04-21-2017
Very nice ideas. I'd say floorbots ought to be armed with floor tiles and scaffolds instead of RCDs, however. Yes, that means AI controlled floorbots can reconstruct floors faster, but the general theme of AI-controlled robots seems to be "do one thing and do it better than the default bot AI".
I am antsy about letting any AI, however benevolent, control securitrons at any point.
I would suggest removing all other tools from an AI shell in favour of the magtractor. The flashlight doesn't work anyway.
Ordering out of the station QM budget for vending machines would be a godsend in cases where you helplessly watch someone die next to a medical vending machine, yes.
Generally speaking I like most of these ideas, and will let someone else be the rain on the parade.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - YoukCat - 04-21-2017
I agree entirely with removing all the tools from an AI Shell. It would even fix the whole CAN'T USE HOTKEYS thing with the AI Shells. I'm glad you approve of these ideas!
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Sam Eagle - 04-21-2017
I very, very much like the idea of controlling the other bots on the station, such as buttbots, skull bots etc. I believe that there is a strong feeling from some of the coders that the AI should NOT have easy access to pull. This may mean that the magtractor isnt going to fly, but as an alternative if I could deliver medical attention via a medibot under my directl control I wouldnt necessary need to pull.
Securitron control may be a bit much, but if there were alternatives that we could use to deal damage to people outside of shells and electrified doors that would be great. Even if it was something that could be considered time consuming to prepare.
The idea of having Tabs, perhaps similar to blob, for individual console access seems really good too. I posted in another thread about my desire to see a malf AI as an antag round in Goonstation. I havent had a chance to enjoy that on any server before, really, but I think a key component has to do with making the AI core easier to defend, and making the AI able to damage people with insulated gloved more easily.
Another idea I just thought of is that of a sort of silicon mindslave situation. If this is too of topic please ignore, but imagine if when selected as an AI traitor you had an option to deliver either a mindslave-like implant or a direct dose of nano-machine/robotic transformation virus. This may be significantly easier to implement than many of the complex but awesome changes mentioned already.
Edit: I very much like that it is YoukCat making the initial suggestions, I consider him one of the foremost AI experts of goon at this point.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - ferriswheel1 - 04-21-2017
I'd also like the AI to have direct control of the MULE bots, possibly making them a little faster. Combined with a magtractor on shells, It'd be a nice way of letting the AI run the cargo bay solo if people need supplies and no QM is online. If a QM is online, then it'd add a nice element of cooperation between AI's and cargo.
As has been said on other threads regarding AI, the AI should be able to run areas of the station entirely alone, befitting a hyper-advanced machine intelligence.
Also, do the AI and borgs receive alert messages from the various PDA messaging bots? If not, they really should, especially with regards to the cargo and medical bots.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - awfulworldkid - 04-21-2017
I support this. Mostly what people have said above, with the additional hilarious side-effect that it may make having more than one rogue AI worth the time and effort to build an AI Core.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Cirrial - 04-21-2017
AI DUEL 2000
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Frank_Stein - 04-21-2017
Reposting from another thread, with a few edits
(04-07-2017, 05:58 PM)Frank_Stein Wrote: I really think AI needs to borrow some blob code, not just in the viewing mode, but also some other things like abilities, hud, and hotkeys. Do the overmind view, move some of the AI tab stuff to HUD abilities for easier access, and add some new abilities to make the job easier and more involved without overpowering the AI
Couple ideas for new AI abilities in an overmind mode:
- Summon bot: Click a tile, get a list of bot types that exist and how many, click one and have it travel to the tile you clicked. Respond to fires, send medical attention, aid security, all indirectly with your bot buds
- Bookmarking: Place a bookmark on a tile or mob and assign it to a number key. Simply press that number to have your view travel to that spot
- Waypoints: Someone need help finding something or someone? Set a waypoint for it by clicking it and naming it, and let people use trackers or PDA apps to guide them to the location. No need to give them constant verbal updates. Tag messes, breaches, dead bodies, fugitives from the law, and notify the appropriate human
- Fast APC: Wanna mess with a rooms lights, equipment, or life support? Activate this to have the window for the nearest APC pop open so you don't have to hunt it down anymore
- Change vision mode: Cycle through different visions to help filter out information. Different vision types could include:
That's a few right there that just makes the work the AI already does easier and faster. It's a job that for as important a role as it's considered really needs more love in terms of content and quality of life. It's the only job I have in unwanted, not because I disliked it, but got really sick of having to fight against the controls and mechanics of it while everything else is being made more accessible.
- Heat signatures - filters everything as a dark blue, while popping out humans and monkeys as a bright orange. Useful for finding people in dark areas
- Atmospheric - filters everything as dark green. Tiles that contain gasses are brightly colored various pinks, oranges, reds based on what type of gas is prominent. Useful for spotting breaches
- Electrical - filters everything dark red. Electrical currents are highlighted a bright white, with intensity in proportion to the amount of power flowing through. Useful for detecting power outages and sinks
(04-13-2017, 06:07 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Couple of ideas for the more powerful AI abilities. These would start toggled off at round start and would need a human to activate. Tried to keep them useful for a non-traitorous AI, but something that can be very useful for that.
- Bot possession: AI takes direct control of a targeted bot. Some jobs you just gotta do yourself
- The electromagnetic decryptor: Toggles a door or bot from an emagged state to a normal one and vice versa. Has a cooldown
- Hologram: AI can create a holographic duplicate of an item or person that they take control of. Can't interact physically with the world (AI can still control doors and computers to give the illusion the hologram is) and anything that makes physical contact with the hologram causes it to visually "shimmer" giving away the illusion.
- Instant records access: Click a person, be able to change their access levels, modify their medical and security records, etc
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Nnystyxx - 04-21-2017
Thank you for dumping your ideas in here too Frank, I was wondering where you were
A++ this thread, I wish this was pinned, AI needs love etc etc etc I've said this 20 times
EDIT: Cool idea: what if bots had a different color light or some sort of effect to denote being controlled actively by an AI/a brain you shoved into one like a deranged madman rather than the npc code
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Frank_Stein - 04-21-2017
One thing I think we should talk about when it comes to buffing the AI and borgs are countermeasures to dealing with them.
Like I've said before, I think all the new AI abilities should be something that can be toggled on or off by the crew, with more powerful ones defaulted to off. Maybe there's a console that requires a head or HoS ID to access it? Not only will it help keep an AI in check, but also create a new dynamic of deception on the part of a rogue AI to convince someone to unlock it's higher functions.
Maybe that console, or another machine also stores the info for waypoints and bookmarks, so you can edit or delete them. If the AI is tracking you with a waypoint, rewrite the info on it to have it tracking the clown instead.
But there also should be other methods. For instance, regarding AI heat signature vision, cooling yourself down or raising the temperature of a room should both ways you can hide. Maybe there should be a device, either buildable or orderable through the traitor PDA that is essentially a cloaker only for the AI, borgs, and bots. Tamper with the cameras to create video hallucinations that only the AI can see.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - NateTheSquid - 04-21-2017
My AI shells (the blue ones) always run out of charge if I use them at all, cause I never charge them and just having them on drains power relatively quickly. I think the blue shells are plenty robust enough, literally the most robust way to kill someone unsubtly, or set up murder very sneakily.
Very nice ideas as usual, Youk. There should be a subforum for Youk's ideas that might get implemented one day, they're all very good but usually lots of work for coders
Like I've said in some other thread(s), and other people might have said here but I didn't read all of it, the AI should have a physical thing that can be emagged/used to change the AI's abilities. In it's core, like little mainframes, for different kinds of stuff. A bot control terminal, that, normally allows calling of bots to locations, but when toggled, allows possession of normal bots, and when emagged, allows possession of emagged bots. Stuff like that for the different AI sections would be really good, I think.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Dr Zoidcrab - 04-21-2017
(04-21-2017, 04:50 AM)YoukCat Wrote: Safety Mode: From the Captain's PDA, be able to enable AI Safety Mode. This removes the AI's ability to adjust their turrets, their ability to enter shells, and their ability to set things to rude mode. It also takes everything out of rude mode. A sort of mini-lock down for the AI. The AI can still overcharge APCs and the like, however.
Horrible idea. Removes any point in subverting the AI if the captain can just flip a switch and walk into the upload and reset everything. Would also lead to fun hating shits locking down the AI at roundstart and generally make playing AI even less fun.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Superlagg - 04-21-2017
(04-21-2017, 03:30 PM)Dr Zoidcrab Wrote:(04-21-2017, 04:50 AM)YoukCat Wrote: Safety Mode: From the Captain's PDA, be able to enable AI Safety Mode. This removes the AI's ability to adjust their turrets, their ability to enter shells, and their ability to set things to rude mode. It also takes everything out of rude mode. A sort of mini-lock down for the AI. The AI can still overcharge APCs and the like, however.
Horrible idea. Removes any point in subverting the AI if the captain can just flip a switch and walk into the upload and reset everything. Would also lead to fun hating shits locking down the AI at roundstart and generally make playing AI even less fun.
I do however like the idea of rebooting the AI in safe mode, like a quick soft reset accessed from somewhere safe that temporarily resets or deactivates their laws, just long enough to fix it for good.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Musketman12 - 04-21-2017
(04-21-2017, 06:00 PM)Superlagg Wrote:No that's dumb(04-21-2017, 03:30 PM)Dr Zoidcrab Wrote:(04-21-2017, 04:50 AM)YoukCat Wrote: Safety Mode: From the Captain's PDA, be able to enable AI Safety Mode. This removes the AI's ability to adjust their turrets, their ability to enter shells, and their ability to set things to rude mode. It also takes everything out of rude mode. A sort of mini-lock down for the AI. The AI can still overcharge APCs and the like, however.
Horrible idea. Removes any point in subverting the AI if the captain can just flip a switch and walk into the upload and reset everything. Would also lead to fun hating shits locking down the AI at roundstart and generally make playing AI even less fun.
I do however like the idea of rebooting the AI in safe mode, like a quick soft reset accessed from somewhere safe that temporarily resets or deactivates their laws, just long enough to fix it for good.
What's the point of subverting it if it's that easy to reset it. It's not even that hard to break in and reset it, AI has a hard enough time defending themselves.
RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - misto - 04-21-2017
although this would risk making ai control board borgs obsolete, enhanced interaction with the station equipment such as the minibots is much more fitting to the ais nature as omnipresent machine spirit and stationwide asset than box that begs you to build a body for it