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+--- Thread: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. (/showthread.php?tid=7028)
Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Lady Birb - 09-10-2016
From reading this thread, I got a new idea for something that I decided would be deserving of its own thread. So here I go. This is really, really long, so grab something to drink.
Everything here is loosely inspired by tg's shadowlings.
The idea is that revenants would be able to steal the souls of people who are in crit, turning them into soulless shell (I will talk more about that later), and empowering the wraith. To help this, revenants would be given a prodocs-like effect, letting them see if someone is in crit so they know they can steal that person's soul. Soul stealing will require around 5-10 seconds of both the revenant and their victim to remain still, giving bystanders time to intervene or the victim time to escape if they are resiliant enough.
Shells
People who have their souls stolen will become shells (Because "Husk" is already taken"), mindslaved to the wraith who has claimed their soul. Being a shell brings the same weakness as a revenant (slowed movement and unable to be healed), but also weakened versions of the revenants powers. A shells abilities are as follows:
- Pulse: A weaker shockwave. Still knocks people down, but with less range, and it can't shatter glass or rip up floor tiles.
- Hold: An ability meant for assisting the revenant in combat, rather than working on it's own. It leaves the target completely unable to move, but deals no damage and is interrupted if either the shell or their victim is moved.
- Dark fist(Please tell me if you have a better idea for a name): A weaker touch of evil. Gives a noticable damage buff to punches, but less than a revenant's touch of evil and without ToE's knockback.
- Stun resistance: Not a proper power, but rather a passive effect given to shells. They regenerate stamina faster than a normal human and are harder to stun, though a single security officer with a taser can take one down if they are a half decent shot.
- Soul commune: Basically lets the shell speak on a chat channel that only other shells and the wraith with their soul can see
Shells will have a point reserve similiar to a wraith's, with it's regeneration rate being 25% of the wraith's regeneration. I am not giving numbers for the cooldowns or point cost of abilities because I am bad with balancing numbers. If a shell dies, they will be turned into a ghost as normal, but will be invisible to other ghosts due to their lack of a soul. They can still talk to normal ghosts, because being dead without the ability to speak to ghosts would suck maximum dong. If the wraith with your soul is banished, your soul will be restored. Shells who are still alive will be returned to a normal human, while dead shells will become visible to other ghosts.
New wraith powers
Wraiths, of course, benefit from stealing souls. Each soul stolen increases their rate of WP regeneration equal to that of an absorbed corpse, and gathering souls will grant the wraith more powers to use. Number of souls needed for each skill scales with the number of players in the server.
- Soul commune: Allows the wraith to speak on a chat channel that only they and their shells can see. Always unlocked with only one soul
- Nightmarish roar: Because every antagonist needs a sound-based ability. This acts like a changeling's screech, slowing people and making them drop what they are holding at random. Rather than playing a fixed sound, the wraith will be able to choose from a variety of horrific noises. From the basic screams, the changelings screech and a few other demonic roars for maximum spookyness. Can only be used while manifested or as a revenant
- Supernatural frost: Based off the old "Areas with ghosts are colder" myth, targets a room similar to poltergeist, and than temporarily massively drops the temperature in that room, leaving everyone inside without a space suit slowed and possibly frostbitten, leaving them vulnerable to attack.
- Curse of darkness: Causes everything to temporarily become MUCH darker for everyone within a certain raidus of the user area and stuns them, as though they are always wearing a welding mask, while actually making them more vulnerable to flashes and flashbangs, like they are wearing thermals. In general a way to fuck people up massively. Can only be used while a revenant.
- Empower shell: A skill with a long cooldown and high point cost, this will turn the targeted shell into a full-blown revenant, allowing them to go solo-rampage for a while. Stuns the shell for some time before the effect hits, and during that time the shell is shrouded in black smoke with a big red "The shell collapses and begins to emit black smoke!" message, making it extremely obvious what is happening, so using this on a shell who is currently fighting someone or in an open area is a good way to get them killed.
- Power of shadows: The endgame wraith skill, requiring they claim the souls of a good chunk of the station's crew. This will replace the generic "Kill these people and don't get banished" objective of all wraiths, with their objective now being to gather enough souls to unlock this ability. This is the part of the suggestion that was inspired by the thread linked at the top. Using the skill turns the wraith into a shadowgod, a borderline unkillable thing of nightmares. A wraith simply reaching this level is a disaster that ensures the crew is fucked, and automatically calls the shuttle, not than anyone will likely be able to reach it unless the shadowgod intentionally spares them. Using this skill grants the wraith a group of new, massively overpowered abilities and changes the entire station to look like the post-sol disaster station. Basically the station turns into silent hill at this point, staring the shadowgod as pyramid head. Due to the sheer overpowered-ness of this and all the skills it grants, I am accepting suggestions for another idea that gives the whole "The wraith is now a godlike killing machine" feel while still giving the crew a chance to fight back.
"Well the station is fucked now" Powers
Besides all of these, shadowgods are immune to salt lines, have reduced cooldown on all their skills, and can teleport to any of their shells at will.
- Shadow Avatar: Turns the shadowgod into an avatar of shadows, basically a revenant without the speed penalty or constantly-rotting body. Avatars also have a toggleable cloak of darkness.
- Plane shift: Just used for turning back into your spirit form while you are an avatar. Nothing fancy.
- Soul tear: Instantly claims someone's soul, turning them into a shell. Not that you need anymore but hey, more friends is always nice.
- Essence absorb: Instakills the target, skeltonizing them in the process. Best used on idiots who go up and ask you to take their soul. Remember kids, asking to be mindslaved will get you banned!
- Shadow blast(Once again, tell me if you have a better name): Causes an explosion, on par with a mediocre transfer valve bomb. Good for if you have to many idiots standing next to your avatar begging to be mindslaved for you to kill them one by one (or for destroying parts of the station I guess)
- Shell summon: Teleports your shells to you from a drop-down list, plus an option to just call them all at once if you want to have a party.
- Omega command: Like the other command skills, but it picks up players, critters, basically everything not fixed to the floor, and throws them at the target as well, for maximum hilarity.
Wraith weaknesses
Guess what? The chaplain is still a huge pain in the ass. In this case, they can target a prone but still alive shell to preform an excorism. If another shell or the wraith themselves doesn't intervene in time, the shell will have their soul returned, reverting them back into a human and weakening the wraith in the process. Smacking a wraith, revenant or shadowgod. in face with a bible also has a small chance to reclaim a random soul they have stolen, including from dead shells. As per usual, the chaplain is also immune to most of their skills, not being slowed by a roar or blinded by curse of darkness. Chaplains are even immune to a shadowgod's skills, making them the one person who can stand a fighting chance against one! If enough souls a reclaimed, than it is even possible to turn a shadowgod back into a wraith! Trying to steal a chaplain's soul is a bad idea, instantly banishing any wraith or shadowgod dumb enough to try it. As an addition not really part of the stuff listed above, splashing holy water on a tile will now act as invisible salt, forcing a wraith or even shadowgod to manifest. For a bit of comfort for non-chaplains, wearing eye protection will make you immune to curse of darkness, and if manifested by holy water, a shadowgod is just as vulnerable to lasers as a mortal.
Well that took a while, thanks for reading this entire clusterfuck, and don't be afraid to say anything you think could improve this and I will make sure to consider it <3
Edits: Things people suggested down below that could be applied.
- In general, it is agreed that the crew needs more ways to fight a wraith before we can get to buffing wraiths.
- Soul stealing could be renamed something else, the mechanic would be the same, but the terminology would be different. From Erev.
- Instead of mindslaving someone when you steal their soul, it would put a random dead player into the shell. This would effectively prevent people from intentionally getting converted. From Ferriswheel1
- The wraith would be able to inflict a variety of psychoactive aliments such as paranoia, space madness, or other such things that would be cured by sleeping. At the same time, the wraith can feed off of the nightmares of sleeping players to create horrible abominations that dead players can take control of. Also from Ferriswheel1
- Instead of forcing a shadowgod into their weaker state by having the chaplain reclaim souls, when a wraith turns into a shadowgod some sort of pylons or evil signs will spawn around the station, and destroying or consecrating them would turn the shadowgod back into a wraith. From Nnystyxx.
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Erev - 09-10-2016
Two things.
First up we've mostly avoided mechanics that let someone become an antag during the round due to worries people will aim to get converted. The playerbase has matured some since then so I am not certain if that concern is still valid.
Second up I'm not keen on the whole 'soul stealing' aspect of things. For as dark as this game can get you still do wind up with some religious folks playing and I know that I for one am not entirely at ease with such elements even if it is just some lulz-y bullshit in a 2D specman sim. This is a concern that I had with being forced to sign the Infernal Contract as well and which a workaround was found but I would prefer to not have to avoid a whole antag role over it. Is there is a way to re-theme it so that 'soul stealing' isn't a thing? (Keeping the mechanics is fine - it's the terminology.)
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Lady Birb - 09-10-2016
(09-10-2016, 11:03 PM)Erev Wrote: Two things.
First up we've mostly avoided mechanics that let someone become an antag during the round due to worries people will aim to get converted. The playerbase has matured some since then so I am not certain if that concern is still valid.
Second up I'm not keen on the whole 'soul stealing' aspect of things. For as dark as this game can get you still do wind up with some religious folks playing and I know that I for one am not entirely at ease with such elements even if it is just some lulz-y bullshit in a 2D specman sim. This is a concern that I had with being forced to sign the Infernal Contract as well and which a workaround was found but I would prefer to not have to avoid a whole antag role over it. Is there is a way to re-theme it so that 'soul stealing' isn't a thing? (Keeping the mechanics is fine - it's the terminology.)
For point one, I can see the problem with conversion-based antagonists, but with the weaknesses of shells (no healing and slow movement) and them being obvious enough that stealth isn't an option, I am pretty sure people will have enough reasons to avoid being enslaved.
For point two, if anyone has a better term, just say something. I am willing to change it if the general consensus is it should be changed.
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - ferriswheel1 - 09-11-2016
(09-10-2016, 11:52 PM)Lord Birb Wrote:(09-10-2016, 11:03 PM)Erev Wrote: Two things.
First up we've mostly avoided mechanics that let someone become an antag during the round due to worries people will aim to get converted. The playerbase has matured some since then so I am not certain if that concern is still valid.
Second up I'm not keen on the whole 'soul stealing' aspect of things. For as dark as this game can get you still do wind up with some religious folks playing and I know that I for one am not entirely at ease with such elements even if it is just some lulz-y bullshit in a 2D specman sim. This is a concern that I had with being forced to sign the Infernal Contract as well and which a workaround was found but I would prefer to not have to avoid a whole antag role over it. Is there is a way to re-theme it so that 'soul stealing' isn't a thing? (Keeping the mechanics is fine - it's the terminology.)
For point one, I can see the problem with conversion-based antagonists, but with the weaknesses of shells (no healing and slow movement) and them being obvious enough that stealth isn't an option, I am pretty sure people will have enough reasons to avoid being enslaved.
For point two, if anyone has a better term, just say something. I am willing to change it if the general consensus is it should be changed.
Personally, I don't see any problem with the concept of soul-stealing and I wasn't aware any particularly religious people played. But I'm sure it could be rephrased as "essence" or "spirit" if anyone takes issue with the terminology.
I would think a better alternative to conversion-based mechanics would be something like the existing mid-round antagonist thingy, that randomly selected an existing dead player and shoved them into whatever eldritch horror the wraith could make. It makes thematic sense too, what with the wraith and it's general ghostiness vibe. There's no guarantee of a antagonist role though, so people are unlikely to rush towards a death by wraith.
I had a cool idea for the wraith which kinda follows with this: Nightmares. Essentially, the wraith gains a whole load of affliction-based powers, like making you hallucinate constantly, have paranoia or a psychosomatic illness, that could be cured by resting in a bed or hibernating in a sleeper. The wraith can also "harvest" nightmares from any sleeping player, giving them a bunch of scary messages and waking them up. This nightmare can later be released to create a ghost-controlled minor antagonist. My main idea would be to have the nightmare pull from a random set of forms, powers and weaknesses. So you could have a space bear made out of smoke that made slippery floors, or a spooky martian that phased though walls and threw lightning bolts. Requiring people to go to sleep would mean it'd be something you would only see occasionally, and might work into cooperation with other antags.
Really though, I would hold off on adding any more powers to the wraith until the crew gets more means to fight it. Currently there's not a whole lot you can do to deal with a wraith besides chuck down salt lines that will be instantly scuffed away by passing crew members. I'd like to see more entertaining means of fighting off spooky ghosties.
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - misto - 09-11-2016
this doesnt sound too bad, but there is 1 primary problem with it - wraiths are already quite strong and hard to catch when they are played wisely. that is why i suggested a mix of items that could both harm and help the wraith in my thread, whereas these minions and fresh powers seem like mostly a raw buff. if the tables are ever turned back against the wraith due to updates and nerfs, these things might be good to add, but not in the current climate imo
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Noah Buttes - 09-11-2016
That shadowgod thing sounds a lot like an ascended shadowling from tg-station.
Of course, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Nnystyxx - 09-11-2016
Wraith is a weird gamemode. On the one hand, it has a decent spare of power and if you can't salt it, it can fuck you up, if sometimes slowly. You have virtually zero tools to fight it besides just shooting it when it manifests and laying salt piles (incidentally, salt is very annoying to actually use, you have to swap it between multiple containers if you're doing the salt shaker method).
On the other hand, the Wraith has very little actual OPTIONS in the way of killing you (read: animate/command objects, and that's it for 90% of the time). Sure, it has Revenants, but they have an absolutely enormous cooldown and are time-limited (that time shortening even faster if they're beat up). Even the spooky-haunting-effects power has a cooldown, and that one's labelled NOT to have a cooldown. If a wraith gets a goodly amount of points/point generation from corpses, they have very little ability to spend that on anything since every ability has a big fucking cooldown before it can be used, regardless of the wraith's power level.
So I would be in favor of more shit for the Wraith to do, since the only thing that actually scares me is if it pops off a Revenant and nobody is prepared to fight it. At the same time, I'd also like more variety/ability in fighting it-- ghostbusting equipment and so on. It seems to more or less be the wraith whittling down incompetent crew, or the thing getting instantly bodied because it touched salt and everyone had eguns.
EDIT: I like the idea of the 'wraith becomes a horrible disaster-round shadow god'. Maybe its manifestation into unlimited power has an effect-- something tethers it to that power, like some kind of pylons or evil signs that the crewmen have to hunt down and destroy/consecrate in order to weaken the wraith and banish it back to hell (with a rather concerted effort).
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Lady Birb - 09-11-2016
I have added the suggestions you all have given as a little extra bit at the bottom of the original post. Keep the ideas coming, mates!
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Wraithcraft - 09-11-2016
I quite like this idea, and here are a few more:
Maybe make the Wraith have the ability to "Possess" someone, and instead of being able to move them, makes them speak in either Sumerian or other spooky ways. Might add to the spook factor more than actual power. (Your body seizes up, and your limbs go limp. Your mouth starts to move as a dark presence moves into your brain!)
I kind of like the idea of maybe something akin to the blobs Nuclei for the Shadowgod, maybe you have 3-4 hidden around the station (You sense mysterious energy signals emanating from the corridors of this forsaken ship. Maybe there is hope, after all.) , and the crew has to find it? They could be like, the bodies of tortured victims, contorted into horrific energy pylons, feeding power to the Shadowgod, and each one destroyed weakens the Shadwgod, debuffing some of it's powers. It could take about 30 seconds to destroy or desecrate one of these Flesh Pylons. (You start to move the tortured masses of writhing flesh off of the glowing pedestal. Ew.)
I like the idea of maybe some of the "Nightmares" coming to life, being controlled by dead people. It fits in with the theme, really. (The Shadow Wendigo starts to howl! The Shadow Wendigo leaps at you through the wall! The Shadow Wendigo begins to vomit a black, acidic slurry!)
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - atomic1fire - 09-11-2016
(09-11-2016, 09:40 PM)Wraithcraft Wrote: I like the idea of maybe some of the "Nightmares" coming to life, being controlled by dead people. It fits in with the theme, really. (The Shadow Wendigo starts to howl! The Shadow Wendigo leaps at you through the wall! The Shadow Wendigo begins to vomit a black, acidic slurry!)
I kinda think it would be cool if each "nightmare" was something different.
I was gonna say the four horseman (war, pestilance, famine, death IIRC) but maybe that's too played out as a reference.
Unless Wraith is war and he's trying to invite his brothers aboard the station.
That would twist it from a vaguely cult sounding round to the worst family reunion ever.
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Nnystyxx - 09-12-2016
(09-11-2016, 09:40 PM)Wraithcraft Wrote: I quite like this idea, and here are a few more:
Maybe make the Wraith have the ability to "Possess" someone, and instead of being able to move them, makes them speak in either Sumerian or other spooky ways. Might add to the spook factor more than actual power. (Your body seizes up, and your limbs go limp. Your mouth starts to move as a dark presence moves into your brain!)
I kind of like the idea of maybe something akin to the blobs Nuclei for the Shadowgod, maybe you have 3-4 hidden around the station (You sense mysterious energy signals emanating from the corridors of this forsaken ship. Maybe there is hope, after all.) , and the crew has to find it? They could be like, the bodies of tortured victims, contorted into horrific energy pylons, feeding power to the Shadowgod, and each one destroyed weakens the Shadwgod, debuffing some of it's powers. It could take about 30 seconds to destroy or desecrate one of these Flesh Pylons. (You start to move the tortured masses of writhing flesh off of the glowing pedestal. Ew.)
I like the idea of maybe some of the "Nightmares" coming to life, being controlled by dead people. It fits in with the theme, really. (The Shadow Wendigo starts to howl! The Shadow Wendigo leaps at you through the wall! The Shadow Wendigo begins to vomit a black, acidic slurry!)
Your name is growing increasingly appropriate! More spooky Sumerian is always fun.
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - misto - 09-12-2016
if the wraith can steal souls, can it sign traitor chaplain contracts
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Noah Buttes - 09-12-2016
(09-12-2016, 07:02 AM)misto Wrote: if the wraith can steal souls, can it sign traitor chaplain contracts
I have no idea how you'd code that, but I give the idea my official contract stamp of approval.
RE: Wraiths, revenants, and souls. - Lady Birb - 09-12-2016
(09-12-2016, 07:02 AM)misto Wrote: if the wraith can steal souls, can it sign traitor chaplain contracts
So a wraiths collected souls could also be given to a traitor chaplain in exchange for powers? Due to the way wraiths work, we would have to either:
- Make the effects of the contract only apply to the wraith while it is a revenant or shadow avatar.
- Make the effects apply to the shell the soul once belonged to, rather than the wraith itself
- Add a completely different set of effects to contracts specifically for wraiths.