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+--- Thread: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. (/showthread.php?tid=2449)
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Sundance - 05-06-2014
Dauntasa Wrote:what's this about not killing changelings? I have literally never seen anyone not try to kill a changeling because of how difficult it is to keep them in any way restrained. It's trivial for them to bust out of any kind of restraints and they can keep attacking with their abilities anyway. Plus even standing near one lets them neurotox you which will either straight up murder you or reduce you to a gibbering retard depending.
Changelings are all about eating dudes and letting one go means that it will just change faces and continue eating dudes. I'd love to see what deadchat would look like if you just let a changeling go.
I never mentioned not killing a ling, I just encouraged capturing one, as I previously stated, killing brings sadness to all. Hell, I even said it's pretty damn difficult to do, and hence you probably should do it in a team.
No where did I say "let a changeling go". I even purposely stated to contain it.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Dauntasa - 05-06-2014
not immediately murdering it is basically letting it go because they only time you can restrain it is when it's knocked out and when it wakes up it will be very mad and all of its powers will be cooled down so it will sting or spit everyone and then leave
encouraging new players to try not to kill changelings will result in a lot of very fat changelings
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Clarks - 05-06-2014
All this non-lethal, capturing but not killing is BULLSHIT.
There's few traitors most rounds, so security shows "mercy" by not "taking out of the round" a captured traitor. For the same reason some sec players go around playing doctors, helping those hurt by a traitor instead of focusing on fighting (hell, I've done this too): this is boring. If I want to cure people, I play a doctor.
When I pick security, I want to kick some ass or get slaughtered as I try.
The best rounds as a traitor, nuke op or a changeling are when I'm up against competent, relentless security. Not a bunch of goody two shoes who are trying to make it fun for everyone.
Raise traitor rates again, stop worrying about being non lethal. If people have the chance of getting one traitor round a day, they won't mind dying on their first fight.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Dauntasa - 05-06-2014
honestly i've only ever given people extra chances if they're really new and don't know what the hell they're doing
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Sundance - 05-07-2014
I'll change the ling thing around a bit so it's not so passive. Constructive critisism leads to a better sec page.
Otherwise..
I'm shrugging so hard right now at you guys you can't even see my head from my shoulders. It's almost like you didn't get the memo.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Clarks - 05-07-2014
Raising traitor rates is constructive criticism, dork. Unfortunately it's above our paygrade and had to be discussed by admins.
As far as your guide goes, stop telling people that sec's job is to regulate fun. Their job is to try having fun themselves, not decide what's fun for everyone.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - mozi - 05-07-2014
yeah imho this is why less is better on the wiki page. as sec officer I prefer to capture everyone alive, even at risk to myself, but I'm not gonna say players have to do it one way or another.
as long as players are aware of the things they have to explicitly not do, let them use their judgment.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - mozi - 05-07-2014
saying "use the minimum force necessary" leaves room for judgment while letting folks know they shouldn't be lasering petty vandals. everyone happy right?
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Amuys - 05-07-2014
I'm just saying there's a difference between a traitor mechanic mass producing cyalume sabers than a traitor mechanic going around in a cloak shooting people with a revolver.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Paineframe - 05-07-2014
Having seen people literally break into security and start fighting sec officers to try to abduct and lynch-mob a captured naked wizard before his trial, I think that "capture, not kill" certainly makes things hilarious, but that a LOT of attention needs to be paid to the subject of vigilantes.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Clarks - 05-07-2014
I am pretty sure the current policy is that vigilantes caught murdering/rioting/invading the brig can be treated as badly as they are trying to treat you or your prisoners. Whack whack, dump them out without compliments.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Sundance - 05-07-2014
Clarks Wrote:Raising traitor rates is constructive criticism, dork. Unfortunately it's above our paygrade and had to be discussed by admins.
As far as your guide goes, stop telling people that sec's job is to regulate fun. Their job is to try having fun themselves, not decide what's fun for everyone.
Raising traitor rates is an opinion, but it's irrelevent to the topic at hand. We're talking about reconstructing the wiki page?
I never said anything about regulating fun. That would imply that they have the power to make things less fun. We had that power once. It was called Solitary. My whole point is that security should use fun when considering what to do. This is the direction sec has gone with ticketing, a more open brig, fun costumes. If you don't like that direction then I feel bad for you son.
mozi Wrote:yeah imho this is why less is better on the wiki page. as sec officer I prefer to capture everyone alive, even at risk to myself, but I'm not gonna say players have to do it one way or another.
as long as players are aware of the things they have to explicitly not do, let them use their judgment.
I'll make my table far more bite-sized, moving stuff from the wiki to it. Trust me, the reason why I'm doing this is not to make the sec page a bloated mess again. This is still very much WIP
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Clarks - 05-07-2014
When I say fun I don't mean funny gimmicks. Some people enjoy chasing traitors (there's too few); some people pick fights with the crew; others are bumbling drunk cops.
The point is not to write "best practices" to keep everyone happy. If the security page needs something, write what cops should not do: no permabrigging, no murder for minor crimes.
Write how to deal with vigilantes. Suggest they work as a team.
But don't make a guide on how they should deal with enemies. They'll figure out what approach they like, and what are the consequences. There's no need to push your own brand of security play (or mine for the matter) on the wiki.
TLDR: you're a terribly boring cop, don't turn the wiki into how to be Sundance: the manual.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Cogwerks - 05-07-2014
oh good another security thread
*shoots self*
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Sundance - 05-07-2014
Cogwerks Wrote:oh good another security threadheh
*shoots self*
Clarks Wrote:When I say fun I don't mean funny gimmicks. Some people enjoy chasing traitors (there's too few); some people pick fights with the crew; others are bumbling drunk cops.
The point is not to write "best practices" to keep everyone happy. If the security page needs something, write what cops should not do: no permabrigging, no murder for minor crimes.
Write how to deal with vigilantes. Suggest they work as a team.
But don't make a guide on how they should deal with enemies. They'll figure out what approach they like, and what are the consequences. There's no need to push your own brand of security play (or mine for the matter) on the wiki.
It's almost like you didn't read your own thread. I wasn't pushing my brand of sec on the wiki. I read through the posts on this thread, and picked up on the general idea that:
a. Security should be geared towards fun, with discussion of making the brig a more vibrant place, and a new brand kind of sec
b. Sec should be regraded as alturistic. You are a shield not a sword, etc
c. A healthy mentality of sec should be shown on the wiki of the above.
D. Vigilantes and angry assholes in general.
I am tackling ALL these issues at once. And these aren't my own perspective, it's the community's perspective. Don't believe me? Go read the thread. And I'm adjusting it according to the responses I get.
Clarks Wrote:TLDR: you're a terribly boring cop, don't turn the wiki into how to be Sundance: the manual.Cut the insults, lest the thread gets locked, like all the other sec threads you seemed to whine to death about.