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+--- Thread: vampire fixed, misc gripes itt (/showthread.php?tid=2409)
Re: ATTN: Remove vampire until its functioning. - KikiMofo - 06-10-2014
Sundance Wrote:Pretty sure he meant the cloak overlay. The swooshing thing that appears when you are cloaked. If vamp cloak of darkness is the same as genetics cloak of darkness than that means flashlights work on it.KikiMofo Wrote:Sundance Wrote:A massive improvement.Na Cloak is fine now. Just keep a damn flashlight on you. I mean you really think you are going to be safe walking in a dark corridor by yourself when there is a vampire around? Darkness is the vampire's natural ally.
That said, Cloak of Darkness is still horribly broken.
I'd still like to see an area based invisibility worked like the wizards ritual that costs the vampire blood. Call it "Spawn Lair" which costs like 50 or so blood and allows the vampire to be invisible within that area. The more blood, the bigger his lair.
This would change the way vampire functions, for the better.
Can you tell me with a 100% certainty that i'd be fine with a flashlight on me?
Because as far as I can tell, the flashlight doesn't always work. This is what I meant by broken. Also refer to the above post
Re: ATTN: Remove vampire until its functioning. - Sundance - 06-10-2014
KikiMofo Wrote:Pretty sure he meant the cloak overlay. The swooshing thing that appears when you are cloaked. If vamp cloak of darkness is the same as genetics cloak of darkness than that means flashlights work on it.
Which i'm almost certain the genetic cloak of darkness is also pretty broken.
mozi Wrote:i consider this a victory for incessant whiners everywhere
You include yourself in this club of nessesary whiners right?
Re: ATTN: Remove vampire until its functioning. - mozi - 06-10-2014
i was extremely whiny in irc
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - Fox McCloud - 06-10-2014
My input:
Blood Drain: Really gates the Vamp, which is a good thing, seems like an awful lot, at first, but time will tell; it's still pretty much "5-10 minutes in, full power vamp with little to no risk".
Shapeshift: Probably needed to go, though I think the bigger problem with this wasn't shapeshift, but the fact it changed the name on your ID as well. Can't really comment on this ability as I've never used it.
Chiropteran Screech: Welcome change, now functions as a defensive get away spell as opposed to "stun everyone and go to town"
Rejuv+Glare+Hypnotize: Really great changes, Rejuv is still probably too powerful, but then, again, when you factor in all the other changes, it might be ok; I really like the costless nature of hypnotize now, and the CD change on glare means you can't just use it mindlessly.
Bats+Enthrall: Enthralling might actually be a viable tactic now, though with the halved rate gain, this will still be nasty to use. Bats nerf isn't really...particularly interesting.
Mist Form: About the only thing I disagree with in this entire set. What's the point of this? Yes, mist form was a gigantic "get out of jail free" card. What use does it have now? Aside from stealing a few things or hiding in grilles, pre-emptively, its use on a crowded station is effectively moot, and even more so if you have all access. I feel adding a blood cost or just increasing the cooldown would have been enough (especially with the other changes); right now this ability is nearly useless.
About the cloak overlay: Something seems to be breaking overlays, somewhere. Just 1 week ago, the cloak overlay was present, and now it's gone for some reason. The dual thermal resists overlay, skeleton, rotting, werewolf, and lizard overlays are also broken. Needless to say, these are starting to pile up.
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - Noah Buttes - 06-10-2014
Fox McCloud Wrote:Mist Form: About the only thing I disagree with in this entire set. What's the point of this? Yes, mist form was a gigantic "get out of jail free" card. What use does it have now? Aside from stealing a few things or hiding in grilles, pre-emptively, its use on a crowded station is effectively moot, and even more so if you have all access. I feel adding a blood cost or just increasing the cooldown would have been enough (especially with the other changes); right now this ability is nearly useless.
Mist form was practically the only defense vampires had against AIs, making this even worse of a change.
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - Fox McCloud - 06-10-2014
I can also confirm that mistform is permabroken right now; it's impossible to use anywhere; it just says you're being watched.
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - MollyMillions - 06-10-2014
Sundance Wrote:Fix: Put more earmuffs in places that makes sense. 2 pairs of earmuffs beside the test-room. 2 pairs in security. 2 pairs lying about storage/general area.
It might be nice to also have earplugs that take up your radio slot and maybe lower your range of hearing but don't actually deafen you. Maybe it'd lessen sound/concussive based effects without canceling them entirely. They'd be really nice to have as a bomber, for instance.
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - Dauntasa - 06-10-2014
nerfing vampires was a stupid idea because the issue with vamp has always been that it's either pathetically weak or too strong to fight
pendulum's just swinging back the other way now when really if vamp is gonna be a good mode that people enjoy then it's gonna need something approaching an overhaul
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - KikiMofo - 06-11-2014
Dauntasa Wrote:nerfing vampires was a stupid idea because the issue with vamp has always been that it's either pathetically weak or too strong to fightI liked vamp but the bad part of it was that if anyone that knew what they were doing got it everyone was basicly dead and no one had a chance at stopping it. All you could do was run away and hope you didn't get cornered. Although changeling is kinda the same way. If anyone that actually knows how to play it gets changeling lots of people are dead.
pendulum's just swinging back the other way now when really if vamp is gonna be a good mode that people enjoy then it's gonna need something approaching an overhaul
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - mozi - 06-11-2014
i played a round as vamp and found it fun, almost got murdered by the crew early on and kept switching through weak disguises til folks lost track of me.
scream + bats remains a great way to bust up a crowd but the huge bloodcosts means it can't be spammed.
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - Dauntasa - 06-11-2014
KikiMofo Wrote:changelings are the absolute buffest 1-on-1 fighters but they've got fuck all for crowd-control so all you really need to do is attack them in a group. Once they've used their acid and their sting they've really got nothing until they recharge. Abominations are better but transforming essentially throws out a big "I'M TAKING ALL YOUR FUCKERS ON" siren out to the entire crew.Dauntasa Wrote:nerfing vampires was a stupid idea because the issue with vamp has always been that it's either pathetically weak or too strong to fightI liked vamp but the bad part of it was that if anyone that knew what they were doing got it everyone was basicly dead and no one had a chance at stopping it. All you could do was run away and hope you didn't get cornered. Although changeling is kinda the same way. If anyone that actually knows how to play it gets changeling lots of people are dead.
pendulum's just swinging back the other way now when really if vamp is gonna be a good mode that people enjoy then it's gonna need something approaching an overhaul
vampires, meanwhile, used to be fucking garbage at everything and then once they were buffed became the supreme crowd control masters which made the usual tactic of blind angry mob justice not work on them.
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - Karakoran - 06-12-2014
Dauntasa Wrote:changelings are the absolute buffest 1-on-1 fighters but they've got fuck all for crowd-control so all you really need to do is attack them in a group. Once they've used their acid and their sting they've really got nothing until they recharge. Abominations are better but transforming essentially throws out a big "I'M TAKING ALL YOUR FUCKERS ON" siren out to the entire crew.Changelings are actually quite nice in that way though. They're virtually impossible to beat solo, but are easily crushed by a mob. Just two games ago I got like 14 kills somehow, but when I decided to try my luck at rampaging in Escape before the Shuttle arrived two guys with lasers beat the piss out of me. Honestly though, I kind of like that. The Shambling Abomination is more of a last resort option for if you're cornered, not a rampage mode. In this, the Changeling is well balanced in that they lose crowd control for complete dominance in single fights.
vampires, meanwhile, used to be fucking garbage at everything and then once they were buffed became the supreme crowd control masters which made the usual tactic of blind angry mob justice not work on them.
Syndicates are very similar in that they are excellent at crowd control but not particularly focused on single fights. A Syndicate can easily drop a sarin beaker-assembly on a mob, but has little more than a revolver if he plans on fighting a lone vigilante. Traitors/Wizards get to choose which routes they take. Golems are good crowd control, C-Swords are good at single fights, etc.
The vampire, on the other hand, never has that dynamic in play. They've just gone from great at everything to bad at everything. They're not unfixable, they just need to find a proper niche of gameplay.
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - Dauntasa - 06-12-2014
Karakoran Wrote:Changelings are actually quite nice in that way though.agreed, that was not a complaint
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - mozi - 06-12-2014
what are your specific complaints when youre saying vamps are now underpowered and shitty
Re: vampire partly fixed, misc gripes itt - Dauntasa - 06-12-2014
mozi Wrote:what are your specific complaints when youre saying vamps are now underpowered and shittyI haven't played it since the changes but essentially my complaint is they have never not been broken in either an underpowered way or an overpowered way so maybe buffing and nerfing their abilities isn't the answer to making them not broken