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+--- Thread: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. (/showthread.php?tid=2449)
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Sundance - 05-12-2014
Firepower Wrote:Honestly the whole stigma with security being jerks for killing traitors has to go. I can understand if someone is being too strict by busting in and killing you 5 minutes in when they see you buying traitor items with thermals but after 15-20 minutes anyone caught with traitor items should be fair game.
Depends completely and utterly down to the traitor and how he plays. Possessing traitor items shouldn't be always warranted an arrest, never-mind murder, this is a far far worse stigma.
To me, murdering a traitor because you spotted he has traitor stuff just screams that can't handle your shit as an officer because you'd rather see him dead. It also screams that you have no creativeness other than "kill" when there are many many alternatives.
That also extends on the gimmicky traitors. Like there was two dudes in the RD's room trying to set up a nuke when I was playing as AI. I simply said "warhead spotted", didn't actually say where. I immediately regret the decision because the detective found them and shot them both to death. Like, these guys were trying DWAINE (always encouraged) and had heisinbee hostage, it could've been a much better situation, but the detective decided he had a murder boner instead.
A traitor running down the station with bombs and shotguns and are essentially acting like a nuke op? Then I would say they're fair game, because they've no creativeness other than to rampage.
It all boils down to this: If you are a traitor and you get murdered by someone and your first thought was "Man, I really wish they treated me like A or B instead of killing me" then how about you actually use that thought constructively when you play sec?
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - KikiMofo - 05-12-2014
Frank_Stein Wrote:Killing if it's required is fine. Someone's got a laser blasting at you, you don't have many options. But a trip to the clone vats and then straight to the brig with em after, (unless they already blew up medbay, I guess.)Why waste time cloning them? I usually borg traitors. Also if you use a weapon that can gib people are going to assume that you are gibbing so if they catch you with it they are going to give you a taste of your own medicine, at least that's how I do things. Others have their own ways.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Paineframe - 05-12-2014
Firepower Wrote:Honestly the whole stigma with security being jerks for killing traitors has to go. I can understand if someone is being too strict by busting in and killing you 5 minutes in when they see you buying traitor items with thermals but after 15-20 minutes anyone caught with traitor items should be fair game.Why kill them? What are you trying to accomplish by brigging them that can't be accomplished just as well by brigging them and confiscatong their contraband? Security has so many ways to stun or incapacitate people that you really have to go out of your way to kill them, which makes me wonder about the motivations of the people so dedicated to killing - are you just looking for any excuse to carry out a murder that won't get you in trouble? I understand being extra-lethal toward changelings since they're never safe to be around till they've been gibbed, but a wizard or traitor can easily be rendered basically harmless.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Crumplehat - 05-13-2014
Actually most of Sec's most readily available ways to stun bad guys are laughably ineffective. Tasers only mess up your motion and don't even drop your weapon, unless they manage to burst stun you somehow, which uses up all four of your shots in one go. There's the stun baton, which you have to be close up to use, and if the other guy has a c-saber you don't want to get close up. If they have a laser, then tasering them once leaves them open to keep shooting you, and if you're the only sec officer, you don't be able to handle him in all likelihood.
Really, you have to go far further out of your way to brig someone, because you have to drag them to the brig without some assistant knocking them out of your hands and letting them get away, and if you didn't take their shit right there on the spot that means they'll still be armed when they escape. If you got the portabrig, great... assuming someone else was at Sec to get them out of the tube, because it'll take you some time to get back there and the stuns will have worn off by then, and he'll probably have managed to get the cuff off by the time you get up there again.
I don't like murdering people as sec but I can damn well see why it's such an attractive option so much of the time.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - mozi - 05-13-2014
also if conditions are bad you're put in a bad position where if the person escapes they could easily kill you. (this is why if you punch someone near the gibber they will react as if you were using lethal force)
last time as traitor a sec officer beat me to death instead of trying to brig me, even though I was trying to surrender. I didn't begrudge him though cause I'd killed his backup and blown off his leg, and there was another traitor running around in that area. If I had slipped away or the other traitor showed up while he was slowly pulling me to the brig. he'd be screwed.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Sundance - 05-13-2014
Crumplehat Wrote:Actually most of Sec's most readily available ways to stun bad guys are laughably ineffective. Tasers only mess up your motion and don't even drop your weapon, unless they manage to burst stun you somehow, which uses up all four of your shots in one go. There's the stun baton, which you have to be close up to use, and if the other guy has a c-saber you don't want to get close up. If they have a laser, then tasering them once leaves them open to keep shooting you, and if you're the only sec officer, you don't be able to handle him in all likelihood.
imho, the taser nerf could actually be balanced if it changed the cartridge from 4 shots to 7, to balance it with the energy gun (which also has 7 [I THINK!?] shots, and a lethal mode to boot)
4 shots is absolutely miserable.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - pizzatiger - 05-13-2014
Pro tip: There a mini brig near mining....use that instead of hauling people from cargo to security
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Crumplehat - 05-13-2014
Problem is, if you're near medbay, the distance is about the same in either direction. And even if you're right at the bar, there's so many people that it's still difficult to transport a prisoner to sec without someone knocking them out of your hands.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Morphing_Dwarf - 05-13-2014
pizzatiger Wrote:Pro tip: There a mini brig near mining....use that instead of hauling people from cargo to security
I pretty much always use that brig whenever I am on the south side of the station just because it is much less populated, which therefore makes me 4x more likely to keep my prisoner with me the whole way to the sec outpost.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Firepower - 05-13-2014
Paineframe Wrote:Firepower Wrote:Honestly the whole stigma with security being jerks for killing traitors has to go. I can understand if someone is being too strict by busting in and killing you 5 minutes in when they see you buying traitor items with thermals but after 15-20 minutes anyone caught with traitor items should be fair game.Why kill them? What are you trying to accomplish by brigging them that can't be accomplished just as well by brigging them and confiscatong their contraband? Security has so many ways to stun or incapacitate people that you really have to go out of your way to kill them, which makes me wonder about the motivations of the people so dedicated to killing - are you just looking for any excuse to carry out a murder that won't get you in trouble? I understand being extra-lethal toward changelings since they're never safe to be around till they've been gibbed, but a wizard or traitor can easily be rendered basically harmless.
I don't exclusively kill the traitors I capture, but I don't think there's anything wrong with people who decide to do that. My point wasn't so much that people should not be mad for killing traitors, but they shouldn't be mad at people who actually go after traitors and try to catch/stop them.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Toybasher - 06-05-2014
My issue is the Vigilantes who chase and murder/gib you just because you have a fake moustache on.
Or players who, after spotting a dead guy, see something like a safari kit and just announce it over the radio and jam them into the crusher.
Now I understand if you've been on a rampage, but simply being caught without even having done anything traitorous is just lame and boring as all hell. Heck, I cannot remember a SINGLE TIME when caught as a traitor by sec that I've been let go. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I have just been bucklecuffed and executed with the detectives revolver, or flung out into space via the sec pod bay doors, or beaten to death by an officer. Isn't that supposed to be **** sec behavior? Sorry if I sound like I am whining but I find it absolutely recidilous when players do that. I even remember spawning a crate in maintence, detective rushes in thermals (This is like 6 minutes into the round) takes me into security, and shoots me to death.
I actually will gladly clone a traitor, especially if it's early in the round. Heck I even people reading to do the same. I know how it feels to be mercilessly gibbed via the god damn janitor because I spawned an emag. Why should I do the same to them? Sure the traitor might bite me in the rear later on but I really don't care. If he's been on a rampage or something I see why people gib him and might not clone him.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - KikiMofo - 06-05-2014
Toybasher Wrote:Heck, I cannot remember a SINGLE TIME when caught as a traitor by sec that I've been let go. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I have just been bucklecuffed and executed with the detectives revolver, or flung out into space via the sec pod bay doors, or beaten to death by an officer. Isn't that supposed to be **** sec behavior? Sorry if I sound like I am whining but I find it absolutely recidilous when players do that. I even remember spawning a crate in maintence, detective rushes in thermals (This is like 6 minutes into the round) takes me into security, and shoots me to death.
Yeah that is shit sec and they aren't really suppose to go around killing people like that but it's not against the rules to kill confirmed traitors. Antags are free game at all times. Doesn't matter if it's 1 minute into the round and the detective catches you(Also I did that exact same thing and the detective showed up and did the same thing to me maybe a week ago, shit sucks) but yeah this really shouldn't be happening unless the person playing detective or sec is new to the server or just shit. Most people like the HoS or people who have played here for awhile know not to kill someone like that. Only time I agree with not giving any second chances is when they are rampaging or if they tried to kill me personally.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Noah Buttes - 06-06-2014
I don't see why you'd have to gib them at all. Why not give them to the chaplain so he can actually do his job for once?
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Toybasher - 06-06-2014
A bit of an idea I thought of would be sec officers getting "Gold Stars' awarded to them via admins for better sec behavior, like not just beating/shooting people to death for being caught with traitor gear, giving tickets/fines to traitors with non lethal gear like fake moustaches and letting them go on the spot without brig time/execution if they haven't murdered anyone, letting traitors have trials, etc.
The gold stars wouldn't actually do anything ingame, but perhaps they could be used to help come to a final conclusion for head of security applications? The stars would be given out on admin's discretion, and I was thinking maybe it would provide a slight incentive for players to not just beat Billy Bob to pieces then toss him into the gibber after spawning an EMAG when the detective spotted him hiding in maint. near roundstart.
Re: It's that time of they year when we rant about security. - Shoddy - 06-06-2014
I feel as though there are two groups of people promoting a false dichotomy.
You don't need to kill every traitor you get your hands on, but traitors should never feel entitled to be let go when they get caught.
I seem to always get situations as an HoS where a traitor screams at me for 15 minutes for catching him and taking more time than usual to get to the brig like I'm their butler, then whines that their "timer" should be up by now and thus should be let go.