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+--- Thread: Insecurity Officers (/showthread.php?tid=8673)
RE: Insecurity Officers - Superlagg - 05-17-2017
(05-17-2017, 10:36 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Another idea regarding the law book and timers:
Have the infractions be listed as minor, major, and severe, and give then give those categories a suggested brig time
Minor=10 seconds
Major=30 Seconds
Severe= 1 minute
Then add a thing on the timer where you list how many of each of those they broke, and it generates a time for you.
Again, all a suggestion that the officer doesn't have to follow exactly, but they can if they don't feel like having to make a judgement call
It'd take longer to get the perp ready for jail than they'd spend in jail.
Which kinda highlights one of the inherent flaws in videogame prison; in a game that lasts around an hour, any length of time spent in timeout will be awkward at best, boring at worst, and overall doesn't really accomplish what it sets out to do.
I'd say we replace typical brigging with something more creative as punishment. Something punishing, but engaging, that you'd want to avoid, but won't hate the game and the player for happening to you.
Fuck it, sec mindslaves. Forces the perp to do community service for a few minutes. Or a non-human stamp that makes the perp not count as human and free for the crew to kick around. Or mopcuffs, where the perp's hands are welded to a mop and bucket and can only use those items while under the influence of The Spaceman. I dunno, something other than sitting in a corner pretending to think about what I did.
RE: Insecurity Officers - Noah Buttes - 05-17-2017
Forced mining labor camp
RE: Insecurity Officers - Frank_Stein - 05-17-2017
I agree. It's hard to make your own fun in the brig. I'd much rather place people under some kind of house arrest, plus you don't have to worry about what to do with people when the brig is blown up or something
RE: Insecurity Officers - misto - 05-17-2017
you know, with the fact that mindslave implants already have a mechanic for wearing off eventually, this revolutionary new concept may do away with the need for brig cells altogether
it even fits in with our extensive and deep lore that nt mindslave security implants would wear off quicker than the syndicate's better equipment
RE: Insecurity Officers - Sundance - 05-17-2017
(05-17-2017, 06:24 PM)Superlagg Wrote: It'd take longer to get the perp ready for jail than they'd spend in jail.
Which kinda highlights one of the inherent flaws in videogame prison; in a game that lasts around an hour, any length of time spent in timeout will be awkward at best, boring at worst, and overall doesn't really accomplish what it sets out to do.
I'd say we replace typical brigging with something more creative as punishment. Something punishing, but engaging, that you'd want to avoid, but won't hate the game and the player for happening to you.
Fuck it, sec mindslaves. Forces the perp to do community service for a few minutes. Or a non-human stamp that makes the perp not count as human and free for the crew to kick around. Or mopcuffs, where the perp's hands are welded to a mop and bucket and can only use those items while under the influence of The Spaceman. I dunno, something other than sitting in a corner pretending to think about what I did.
Errrr.. No. Accomplish?
You misinterpret the purpose of the brig entirely. When I arrest a player, fuck it lets say he's an actual traitor, I don't put him in the brig with the hope to rehab him. Any officer knows full well that when this guy is out, hes either going to intact his revenge, try and get his traitor stuff back or do a plan B.
Its a grace period for the CREW not the traitor. Its meant to give the crew some breather room, while giving a traitor a second chance. The fact it's only 5 minutes and easy as fuck to break out is actually an issue in itself.
There needs to be more punishments. Shock collars, stockades, other public humiliation stuff, etc.
Mindslave implants are very suspect to be abused, by both parties
RE: Insecurity Officers - Frank_Stein - 05-18-2017
How about, not exactly mindslave implants, but something more akin to AI laws? A behavioral chip
Give them an injection, and it's got a preprogrammed "Rehabilitation therapy" law built into it. The laws can be different things like:
- Clean and repair the station
- Make a profit for the station
- Do not harm crewmen
- Do not vandalize the station
- Do not trespass
RE: Insecurity Officers - amaranthineApocalypse - 05-18-2017
(05-17-2017, 11:37 PM)Sundance Wrote: There needs to be more punishments. Shock collars, stockades, other public humiliation stuff, etc.
Well, the electropacks are still a thing... problem is they can be easily removed
Perhaps a sec electropack which requires a sec ID to take off?
(05-18-2017, 12:15 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote: How about, not exactly mindslave implants, but something more akin to AI laws? A behavioral chip
Give them an injection, and it's got a preprogrammed "Rehabilitation therapy" law built into it. The laws can be different things like:
And etc. You'd pick an implant appropriate to the crime they committed. If they were an antagonist they're remain one, but while they are implanted they have to find a way to be a bad guy while still following that law.
- Clean and repair the station
- Make a profit for the station
- Do not harm crewmen
- Do not vandalize the station
- Do not trespass
Also, i really like this idea!
RE: Insecurity Officers - awfulworldkid - 05-18-2017
Remember to make the implants tell you not to remove the implants, or else the first thing any self-respecting crimer would do would be to remove the implant.
RE: Insecurity Officers - misto - 05-18-2017
the main failure of such things is that they count on someone being willing to roleplay and play along
there are plenty of current coded functions ie electropacks, camera implants, tracking implants, etc. that could be combined into excellent discipline implants that could still decay after however many minutes, if you want
you could even get the ai in on it with a simple law change
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sImtaK89BE0
RE: Insecurity Officers - Sundance - 05-18-2017
Frank_Stein Wrote:How about, not exactly mindslave implants, but something more akin to AI laws? A behavioral chip
Give them an injection, and it's got a preprogrammed "Rehabilitation therapy" law built into it. The laws can be different things like:
[ul]
[li]Clean and repair the station[/li]
[li]Make a profit for the station[/li]
[li]Do not harm crewmen[/li]
[li]Do not vandalize the station[/li]
[li]Do not trespass[/li]
[/ul]
And etc. You'd pick an implant appropriate to the crime they committed. If they were an antagonist they're remain one, but while they are implanted they have to find a way to be a bad guy while still following that law.
I am very hesistant to this idea. I mean for one, policing this from an admin perspective would be near impossible due to all the clauses (note the reason why policing mindslave implants are so easy is that there's only one rule: Do what your master says, and you're free to do whatever the fuck you like in respect of that)
For two, it's just too.. easy. Like that's pretty much neuter terratory right there. Also what's stopping security from abusing these implants and implanting any regular joe soap?
I wouldn't be too against if there was one implant in security (so you have to picky who you want to chemically castrate) and more available to buy at exborhant prices. You need to keep in mind that this is essentially prison in a pill, it's quite powerful.
amaranthineApocalypse Wrote:Well, the electropacks are still a thing... problem is they can be easily removed
Perhaps a sec electropack which requires a sec ID to take off?
I was thinking something a little more user friendly. The large problem with shock packs in that their fairly shit at taking up a bag slot. Something that would take up a glove slot would be far better. Having it locked so it's impossible to take off without cutting off your arm (not really that big a deal in the long run) or being unlocked by an officer. Might need to work on that idea, (like interesting counters) but you get the gist.
Another deterrent is some form of beeping (on the text, not actually noise) alarm that goes off when a player is near. A smart officer can notice a pattern (such as a traitor targeting a department or player), capture the traitor and implant him, and give the alarm to someone in the department/player.
A stockade is perfect for the extra salty players who deserve to be pelted with tomatoes.
RE: Insecurity Officers - Vitatroll - 05-18-2017
Kill bland rampagers and min-maxers? Catch and release is very tit-for-tat.
The brig is a leftover from an era where we had full sec teams. It could hold people for a trial, or it could be a drunk tank, or could be used to enforce gestapo-sec. The brig isn't designed to hold people; it's designed to let them escape. Now it's a place for people to sit and whine about sec being unfair shitlers for stopping their min-max murder spree, or a place to commit suicide over a 5 minute time out.
People have to adapt with the times. If this keeps up, it'll be best to just arm the crew and make it cowboy station like cog wanted. Sec just isn't reliable as a game element anymore.
RE: Insecurity Officers - atamusvaleo - 05-18-2017
(05-17-2017, 09:18 AM)Sundance Wrote: So from the previous posts I get the following:
A. Autopop security, 0 sec required with a pop under 10, but cap loses his right to be traitor. 10-20 = 1 security officer. 20-30 = 2 security officers. Should just stop there IMO
B. Space Law on LLJK 2 to reference (with ability to deviate if possible) so prisoners can be quit being salty shits when given an appropriate sentence.
C. Ability to give a higher time on a jail sentence. Sometimes 5 minutes isn't exactly enough for crime commited. Maybe boost up to 10 minutes?
D. More punishments in general, preferably not grody torture.
E. Space law giving the prisoners some rights (with certain clauses of course). This would give way to interesting scenarios.
A. I would say 1 security officer for every 10 players. Seems like fair odds to me.
B. The "ability to deviate if possible." I want to stress this point to Ed. I think he's missing this side of the argument for the laws. It wouldn't be there to prevent you from enforcing anything but give credence to your selected punishment. Plus, I feel like the ambiguity of the current space law rules printed in the book (not the wiki) are its downfall. For new players, having a guide to reference easily is incredibly beneficial and is a great starting point.
C. I'd be for bumping it up to 15 at least. For murderers awaiting trial and the like. Sometimes people are terrible but you might not want to kill them regardless.
D. I'm okay with the grody torture but as a punishment for heinous crimes. Not for simply having contraband or punching someone once.
E. I like this idea a lot.
I'm opposed to the law implants. Most of these things can be done by current in-game means, ie: electropack and shackles while you walk them around the station and make them pick up trash; however, something similar to but a bit less cumbersome than an electropack is worth brainstorming on.
Ed, I was the person who posted about the law books. They currently have the old laws. I believe the sec dispensers with flashes, flashbangs, and handcuffs currently have 1 copy of the book available.
Anyone know what the loyalty implants we currently have do?
RE: Insecurity Officers - Crazyabe - 05-18-2017
I think the Loyalty implants are anti Rev' weapons... Shoot/implant someone with 'em and they can't be rev'd/are un-rev'd. I don't think I've spotted any on cog 1 though.
RE: Insecurity Officers - Ed Venture - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 04:44 AM)atamusvaleo Wrote: B. The "ability to deviate if possible." I want to stress this point to Ed. I think he's missing this side of the argument for the laws. It wouldn't be there to prevent you from enforcing anything but give credence to your selected punishment. Plus, I feel like the ambiguity of the current space law rules printed in the book (not the wiki) are its downfall. For new players, having a guide to reference easily is incredibly beneficial and is a great starting point.
But as a Officer I don't need to prove anything to the prisoners who run their mouth. I just ignore them and tell them to adminhelp me if they feel I am so shit. I like the idea of it being a guidebook for new players but the moment you start using it to defend your actions people are going to start thinking it's set in stone rules for Security and I don't want that. The only way I'd be completely fine with the book being used to defend a officer's actions is if the first page of the book it says in big bold red letters "THIS BOOK IS JUST A GUIDELINE. THESE ARE NOT THE RULES FOR SECURITY"
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)Berrik Wrote: Having ~ultra strict spacelaw~ is retarded because people with nothing better to do will try to trick sec people into violating it so they can play gotcha with adminhelps. There was a huge rash of that even with the current rules a few years ago.
Hate to say it but I agree with Berrik. Also if you want to throw a book at someone when you arrest them grab Beepsky's journal and throw it at them. If they read it it will for sure lead to some funny moments.
RE: Insecurity Officers - Frank_Stein - 05-18-2017
Include an option to rip the sec law book in half for when you want to dramatically go against it