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+--- Thread: Cogmap 2: *** UPDATE TO BYOND 509 ASAP *** (/showthread.php?tid=2324)
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - BaneOfGiygas - 09-23-2015
Ed Venture Wrote:I'd rather the armory be frequently broken into and consequentially deserve actual monitoring instead of just sitting there completely unused in about half of most rounds. It also goes the other way, giving the station the ability to hastily smash their way into the armory to help combat a major threat in the event that a HoS isn't present, which is a lot more often than you might think. It gives the armory a purpose aside from "that place that Heads of Security have access to and also gets broken into by traitors with emags".Houka Wrote:[*] I'm not a fan of the open armory idea, as anyone with even basic knowledge on how to break down walls/windows/tables can steal the stuff inside the armory in a very short span of time. Vigilante tryhards would be the WORST about this.
I feel exactly the same way. It's not going to take a "trial" or "test" round to figure out that people know how to break into things and the armory looks real easy for anyone to break in and steal all the guns.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Ed Venture - 09-23-2015
BaneOfGiygas Wrote:Ed Venture Wrote:I'd rather the armory be frequently broken into and consequentially deserve actual monitoring instead of just sitting there completely unused in about half of most rounds. It also goes the other way, giving the station the ability to hastily smash their way into the armory to help combat a major threat in the event that a HoS isn't present, which is a lot more often than you might think. It gives the armory a purpose aside from "that place that Heads of Security have access to and also gets broken into by traitors with emags".Houka Wrote:[*] I'm not a fan of the open armory idea, as anyone with even basic knowledge on how to break down walls/windows/tables can steal the stuff inside the armory in a very short span of time. Vigilante tryhards would be the WORST about this.
I feel exactly the same way. It's not going to take a "trial" or "test" round to figure out that people know how to break into things and the armory looks real easy for anyone to break in and steal all the guns.
Hey man if you want more people running around with guns shooting people all the time and want one security officer to constantly guarding the place all round. Then more power to you. But I think it's easy to see why that's not so fun. I rather a traitor with a emag break in then having some random person with common tools take all these powerful guns.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Sundance - 09-23-2015
Ed Venture Wrote:BaneOfGiygas Wrote:Ed Venture Wrote:I feel exactly the same way. It's not going to take a "trial" or "test" round to figure out that people know how to break into things and the armory looks real easy for anyone to break in and steal all the guns.I'd rather the armory be frequently broken into and consequentially deserve actual monitoring instead of just sitting there completely unused in about half of most rounds. It also goes the other way, giving the station the ability to hastily smash their way into the armory to help combat a major threat in the event that a HoS isn't present, which is a lot more often than you might think. It gives the armory a purpose aside from "that place that Heads of Security have access to and also gets broken into by traitors with emags".
Hey man if you want more people running around with guns shooting people all the time and want one security officer to constantly guarding the place all round. Then more power to you. But I think it's easy to see why that's not so fun. I rather a traitor with a emag break in then having some random person with common tools take all these powerful guns.
I'd rather not there be a "trial" period as that to me sounds more like "A painful time to be security until a coder may or may not notice" period
I'm fairly middle ground here. While I agree that the armory shouldn't be a emag only zone, I also agree that the armory should be far more secure than it is currently, and that does NOT involve security guarding it 24/7 because security in this map will already be stretched thin as is. Really what it needs is a hardcoded gun-buddy system, a lockdown system that shuts the person in similar to Sierra Madre vault in F:NV. It should be difficult to break in, may require you to disable systems or use explosives. Currently I can see experienced players waltzing in there with no qualms.
People need to realize that even if there was an officer guarding it, then once the person breaks in, that officer is already not equipped for the person who clearly now outguns him with a bag full of guns.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Ed Venture - 09-23-2015
Regardless on opinions on the open armory I think we can all agree that it is just not secure enough.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Sundance - 09-23-2015
Pretty much
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Vitatroll - 09-23-2015
You can't really induce a wild west scenario when all of the guns are in one place. Antags would have it in their best interest to 'get rid' of what they don't want, lest it be used against them. Same goes for the eventual vigilantes. I agree the armory needs to be more secure. Especially with those two n2o cans there. I hate that stuff.
That being said, I love the idea of a lockerless armory. I like the thought that somebody who isn't an HoS, emagger, or nerd can gain access. At current, though, all you need is access to a chem dispenser, a blunt object, and about 30 seconds to get all that you could want. That ain't good, folks.
I'd be for a local (closed) buddy system. Maybe one buddy in the vault (preferably a strong one; tranq or elec) with two patrolling sec for those without sec access. They could be slaved to a local radio that has a randomized frequency every round. They would be set to patrol sec at roundstart, but commands could be altered via secnet access with a valid sec ID. In fact, it'd be neat if more of sec's utilities (buddies, secutrons, fingerprints, door access, records, etc) could be rolled up into one computer system, but I digress.
Another idea is electrified flooring which could only be disabled through HoS access, cutting the power, or destroying the tiles.
Speaking of cutting the power, is it possible to have redundant APCs? As it is you can just that one to have access to everything. I'd like to see two, or maybe even three APCs that need to be cut before you kill the security measures.
Overall, I'd actually like the vault to be a place where if someone breaks in I can think "Holy shit! They actually broke into the vault!" instead of "Oh God, not again".
Hah. I went away and forgot about this post for a few hours. I need to stop doing that.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Noah Buttes - 09-23-2015
I'd be all for the buddies in the vault being stronger variants, just so long as they aren't tesla buddies.
Those things are the spawn of satan.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Frank_Stein - 09-23-2015
I'm for keeping it open, but throwing in a ton of countermeasures. Add a couple of options that could be added and toggled on and off by HoS from various computers/switches. Maybe have it where any three can be on at once, but turning on another requires turning another off? Here's a few ideas.
-Guardbuddies that get activated and storm the room.
-Knock out gas that floods the room
-AI gun turrents
-Hidden floor flushers that dump you into the brig cells
-Electrified tables where trying to pick up objects on them shocks you
-Noise and vibration detectors for people deconstructing their way in
I dunno. The armory is the closest thing to a secure vault, and I'd love for it to be treated like a heist movie where breaking in is both difficult and rewarding. Right now, it's trivial to get into when you have the right tools and abilities, but isn't bothered with too much by anyone else. Keeping the items out makes it a more tempting target for everyone, but multiple countermeasures keeps things interesting as long as there's a way to disable them without getting caught.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Vitatroll - 09-23-2015
Oh and I just thought I'd say that the in-wall locker/cabinet things are really neat. It took me a while to figure out they weren't posters. Haha.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - mozi - 09-23-2015
BaneOfGiygas Wrote:Ed Venture Wrote:I'd rather the armory be frequently broken into and consequentially deserve actual monitoring instead of just sitting there completely unused in about half of most rounds. It also goes the other way, giving the station the ability to hastily smash their way into the armory to help combat a major threat in the event that a HoS isn't present, which is a lot more often than you might think. It gives the armory a purpose aside from "that place that Heads of Security have access to and also gets broken into by traitors with emags".Houka Wrote:[*] I'm not a fan of the open armory idea, as anyone with even basic knowledge on how to break down walls/windows/tables can steal the stuff inside the armory in a very short span of time. Vigilante tryhards would be the WORST about this.
I feel exactly the same way. It's not going to take a "trial" or "test" round to figure out that people know how to break into things and the armory looks real easy for anyone to break in and steal all the guns.
making sec have to babysit their workplace is basically punishing them for actually going out and helping people
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - APARTHEID - 09-23-2015
Well, those SecBuddies they have patrolling Hemera must have some use, right?
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - BaneOfGiygas - 09-26-2015
For the record, when I said monitoring, my intent was not to have security constantly check in on the armory to see whether or not it was being broken into. That's probably what that suggested and I probably should've used a separate term.
What I more meant was that I want to see the armory as something that people actually give a damn about and that should be something that comes into play, albeit infrequently and only when you have a crimer skilled and/or lucky enough to pull off the heist. Right now, due to how infrequently it ever happens, there's very little reason to ever even consider the possibility of having to deal with an armory break-in during the majority of rounds, which devalues the whole idea of having it be a heavily reinforced room located in the security department. Like Frank_Stein said, it's usually either trivially easy (emag your way in when no one's looking) or quite tedious (packet tomfoolery) to do; there isn't much of a middle ground.
And, while I haven't gotten around to throwing in my support for the automated defense systems, I really like the idea of the automated defense systems. If there's gonna be armory break-ins, they should be challenging, rewarding, and spectacular, as opposed to just whacking the lockers with a card and grabbing all of the shotguns.
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - BlackPhoenix - 09-27-2015
BaneOfGiygas Wrote:Like Frank_Stein said, it's usually either trivially easy (emag your way in when no one's looking) or quite tedious (packet tomfoolery) to do; there isn't much of a middle ground..Was plain old multitool and screwdriver hacking made unusable for the armory?
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - Musketman12 - 09-27-2015
BlackPhoenix Wrote:Nope, you can still hack into the armory, just can't touch the guns in the lockers.BaneOfGiygas Wrote:Like Frank_Stein said, it's usually either trivially easy (emag your way in when no one's looking) or quite tedious (packet tomfoolery) to do; there isn't much of a middle ground..Was plain old multitool and screwdriver hacking made unusable for the armory?
Re: Cogmap 2: Map Harder - BlackPhoenix - 09-27-2015
Musketman12 Wrote:Oh, y'all meant the lockers. I actually like to break into the armory and take the lasers for pods, or the crowd dispersal grenades.BlackPhoenix Wrote:Nope, you can still hack into the armory, just can't touch the guns in the lockers.BaneOfGiygas Wrote:Like Frank_Stein said, it's usually either trivially easy (emag your way in when no one's looking) or quite tedious (packet tomfoolery) to do; there isn't much of a middle ground..Was plain old multitool and screwdriver hacking made unusable for the armory?