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Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Printable Version

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RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Ed Venture - 09-03-2017

Stay aware of the intent you are set on. That's the whole lesson harm batoning is trying to teach you.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Wraithcraft - 09-03-2017

harm baton is fair and balanced

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Cyfarfod - 09-03-2017

(09-03-2017, 06:19 PM)Ed Venture Wrote: Stay aware of the intent you are set on. That's the whole lesson harm batoning is trying to teach you.

And, like, I agree. But it is a very harsh lesson to have to suddenly learn.

I would compare it to the time I learned how emag cards interact with the AI turret controls. It can totally derail a round. I'm not saying it's not how things should be... just that it totally CAN be a big deal.

EDIT: Like if I were to boil down my point, is it please consider, when forming your opinion- is it really a good thing, or is it more the mindset of "I got hazed this way, so I'll be damned if anyone else gets to skip it." PROBABLY noone is thinking the hazing thing... but is it possible? I have no opinion, cuz as I said, I got lucky and noticed the point on the wiki instead of getting hit with it myself, although I'm sure at SOME point I'll screw up and accidentally click with red intent. And HOPEFULLY when I do, I will laugh about it.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Technature - 09-03-2017

I honestly think it's mainly there to make people think about what they're doing, as Ed has said.  If you go into Security and you have no idea Intent means different things for certain situations, you kinda deserve a tazer to the face.

I could go in depth if you want, but I feel I may be over analyzing the shit out of this.
As security, your job is to try to bring in crimers whenever possible (to make it more challenging for bad guys).  Your baton is set to be ready to do this, right out the box locker, and the only other weapons you have without HoS clearance are the tazer, the flash, and flashbangs.  The baton is pretty much the only thing that can do lethal harm reliably, so after stunning someone safely, you have to switch it so you're killing someone rather than safely trying to bring them in (I suppose as literal turning the safety off as you can get).  Turning safety off takes a bit of time, meaning you have a small amount of time to determine if it's really necessary (usually the answer is OF FUCKING COURSE IT IS, but go with it for a moment).  Basically, not removing the safety and attacking someone with it is the game reminding you to consider your actions and punishing you for it (hopefully with repeated farting on and looting of you at worst)


RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Crystalwarrior - 09-03-2017

I mean the reason why it happened in the first place was the chaotic mess of intents, grabs, aggressive kicking and baton-shuffling. I agree, the fact that it happened to me twice in the same scuffle was fucking hilarious in hindsight, and now that I realize you have to turn the baton *off* to harmbaton, so this is a bit more justified as it tells me the functionality is still there.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Frank_Stein - 09-04-2017

Idea: Make guns not fire on the help intent

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Dr Zoidcrab - 09-04-2017

(09-03-2017, 11:31 PM)Technature Wrote: I honestly think it's mainly there to make people think about what they're doing, as Ed has said.  If you go into Security and you have no idea Intent means different things for certain situations, you kinda deserve a tazer to the face.

I could go in depth if you want, but I feel I may be over analyzing the shit out of this.
As security, your job is to try to bring in crimers whenever possible (to make it more challenging for bad guys).  Your baton is set to be ready to do this, right out the box locker, and the only other weapons you have without HoS clearance are the tazer, the flash, and flashbangs.  The baton is pretty much the only thing that can do lethal harm reliably, so after stunning someone safely, you have to switch it so you're killing someone rather than safely trying to bring them in (I suppose as literal turning the safety off as you can get).  Turning safety off takes a bit of time, meaning you have a small amount of time to determine if it's really necessary (usually the answer is OF FUCKING COURSE IT IS, but go with it for a moment).  Basically, not removing the safety and attacking someone with it is the game reminding you to consider your actions and punishing you for it (hopefully with repeated farting on and looting of you at worst)

Given how fast paced the game is now I don't think security needs mechanics designed to slow them down at best or at worst have them punished for trying to do their job. It's fairly common practice after downing someone to switch to harm intent to taser them point-blank, usually leaving you with an empty taser. If you then want to stun that player again, for instance if you don't want them to run if bumped, you have to switch back to help intent and baton them. If they then turn out to be an antag (like a rev for example, and you have no implants) you then have to switch off the baton and switch to harm intent to hit them. This all feels like needless busywork to me, and if you can't make decisions on the best course of action to take before you start beating the shit out of someone you're not fit to play security. That's something that should be handled on a per-player basis, not by making security's life harder in general.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Flourish - 09-04-2017

(09-04-2017, 06:51 AM)Dr Zoidcrab Wrote: stuff

You can shoot people point-blank with any intent other than help; disarm (which is what I usually go for) and grab also work. Yeah, beating people with a baton requires it to be off and your intent to be on harm, but all that takes is a c and a 4. I don't really think it's needless busywork, but more so a couple of deliberate extra steps.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Crystalwarrior - 09-04-2017

no, it's actually needless busywork.

Even though I sorta accepted it it's still very much IS needless busywork and extra clunk to a game that's already clunky as all hell.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Grumpchkin - 09-04-2017

It's not that hard to hit literally 1, 2 or 3 to make sure your baton won't hit you.

This is the kneejerkiest of kneejerk threads I've seen in a while, I think you should just follow the immortal advice of untold amounts of gamers worldwide.

GIT GUD

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Sundance - 09-04-2017

I don't think it's particularly fair notion to say this is kneejerky, this is a weird mechanic that's existed since the dawn of goon.

And for good reason imo. The people who often slip up here aren't the seasoned officers, it's the shitty players who stole the baton that are on disarm/harm intent.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - NesMettaur - 09-04-2017

My two cents: this doesn't seem too far out of line with SS13's style, in general even beyond Goon- it's trial and error and you *will* learn minor things like this every time they get you killed.

Even if it's a needless extra step it's one that makes for both funny stories and a learning experience- some might argue dying because of this once is one too many times, but to me that's the exact amount of times any mechanic should get you killed.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - NateTheSquid - 09-04-2017

(09-04-2017, 07:42 AM)Sundance Wrote: The people who often slip up here aren't the seasoned officers, it's the shitty players who stole the baton that are on disarm/harm intent.

this

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - cyberTripping - 09-04-2017

(09-04-2017, 12:52 PM)NateTheSquid Wrote:
(09-04-2017, 07:42 AM)Sundance Wrote: The people who often slip up here aren't the seasoned officers, it's the shitty players who stole the baton that are on disarm/harm intent.

this

with this logic, what about making it only happen to non-sec? Like how non-doctors fail at surgery more.

Then new sec players wouldn't get "gochya!"'d by a dumb mechanic when they probably need it most (ie, having to harm intent to take down a threat and making the ungodly mistake of wanting to stun the criminal before they escape) and shitlers who steal the baton, who by lore logic are less likely to have formal training in operating security gear, will deservedly get fucked.

RE: Please for the love of god make harmbaton stun both, not just the batoner. - Cyfarfod - 09-04-2017

(09-04-2017, 01:36 PM)cyberTripping Wrote:
(09-04-2017, 12:52 PM)NateTheSquid Wrote:
(09-04-2017, 07:42 AM)Sundance Wrote: The people who often slip up here aren't the seasoned officers, it's the shitty players who stole the baton that are on disarm/harm intent.

this

with this logic, what about making it only happen to non-sec? Like how non-doctors fail at surgery more.

Then new sec players wouldn't get "gochya!"'d by a dumb mechanic when they probably need it most (ie, having to harm intent to take down a threat and making the ungodly mistake of wanting to stun the criminal before they escape) and shitlers who steal the baton, who by lore logic are less likely to have formal training in operating security gear, will deservedly get fucked.

Seems pretty sensible.