(01-23-2017, 01:37 PM)The Grim Sleeper Wrote: Spoiler!

What is the difference between 'Option 3 Mesons' and thermo-vision Goggles (or night-vision goggles, what you call em)?
Just the see-through-cloak thing?

Edit: Had another look at the images, I get it now. Meson-3 is closer to the original function of mesons, to see construction through construction.
But now I don't understand the dichotomy; Why do the new mesons need a nerf?
Didn't old mesons have the exact same practical effect of allowing you to look through walls, only at other walls/floors?

Edit2: More looking, more understanding. Yes I see the advantage you would have with the new mesons against someone without them.

Now for some actual contribution:
What about this for a downside?: objects and people beyond a 3-tile radius are invisible, just like the are not visible through walls.

(01-23-2017, 04:16 PM)69andahalf Wrote:

(01-23-2017, 01:37 PM)The Grim Sleeper Wrote: Spoiler!

What is the difference between 'Option 3 Mesons' and thermo-vision Goggles (or night-vision goggles, what you call em)?
Just the see-through-cloak thing?

Edit: Had another look at the images, I get it now. Meson-3 is closer to the original function of mesons, to see construction through construction.
But now I don't understand the dichotomy; Why do the new mesons need a nerf?
Didn't old mesons have the exact same practical effect of allowing you to look through walls, only at other walls/floors?

Edit2: More looking, more understanding. Yes I see the advantage you would have with the new mesons against someone without them.

Now for some actual contribution:
What about this for a downside?: objects and people beyond a 3-tile radius are invisible, just like the are not visible through walls.

Why do they need a downside? It can be argued that you have an advantage against someone if you're wearing the science goggles or sunglasses, and they don't have any downsides. Literally mesons are used for basically nothing aside from very specific scenarios which Vitatroll outlined, and if you throw a huge shit on them no one is going to want to use them anyways.  

(01-23-2017, 05:47 PM)somepotato Wrote:

(01-23-2017, 04:16 PM)69andahalf Wrote:

(01-23-2017, 01:37 PM)The Grim Sleeper Wrote: Spoiler!

What is the difference between 'Option 3 Mesons' and thermo-vision Goggles (or night-vision goggles, what you call em)?
Just the see-through-cloak thing?

Edit: Had another look at the images, I get it now. Meson-3 is closer to the original function of mesons, to see construction through construction.
But now I don't understand the dichotomy; Why do the new mesons need a nerf?
Didn't old mesons have the exact same practical effect of allowing you to look through walls, only at other walls/floors?

Edit2: More looking, more understanding. Yes I see the advantage you would have with the new mesons against someone without them.

Now for some actual contribution:
What about this for a downside?: objects and people beyond a 3-tile radius are invisible, just like the are not visible through walls.

Why do they need a downside? It can be argued that you have an advantage against someone if you're wearing the science goggles or sunglasses, and they don't have any downsides. Literally mesons are used for basically nothing aside from very specific scenarios which Vitatroll outlined, and if you throw a huge shit on them no one is going to want to use them anyways.  

Because otherwise this is a turbonerds dream, it practically disables the limitations lighting brings for the wearer, they'd be able to act on things that they wouldnt be able to see normally (eg being able to laser someone across a dark room without any risk of retaliation) or similar.

(01-23-2017, 08:00 PM)somepotato Wrote: Well currently we can't mimick the behavior of mesons when they last work (eg, you being unable to see clearly through normally too-dark areas)
Thus we either need to compromise or remove them because currently they just tint your vision.

(01-23-2017, 04:16 PM)69andahalf Wrote: Why do they need a downside?

(01-23-2017, 05:47 PM)somepotato Wrote: Because otherwise this is a turbonerds dream, it practically disables the limitations lighting brings for the wearer, they'd be able to act on things that they wouldnt be able to see normally (eg being able to laser someone across a dark room without any risk of retaliation) or similar.

(01-24-2017, 12:17 AM)The Grim Sleeper Wrote: I've made a mock-up to better illustrate my idea: Image. Note how your proper sight cuts out and you can't see the table, the foam tank or the space heaters, the light switch and the wire going north.

(01-23-2017, 04:16 PM)69andahalf Wrote: Why do they need a downside?

(01-23-2017, 05:47 PM)somepotato Wrote: Because otherwise this is a turbonerds dream, it practically disables the limitations lighting brings for the wearer, they'd be able to act on things that they wouldnt be able to see normally (eg being able to laser someone across a dark room without any risk of retaliation) or similar.

It took me a while to see the problem too. To really see it compare the full-bright Image with the natural darkness Image and imagine your assassination target is standing by the Wire-junction next to the Morgue Door (the white one at the top). Without goggles, that person would be hidden in the darkness. With new unnerfed mesons, you would be able to see them, and they wouldn't be able to see you at all.

And me being exactly that kind of powerytard, I also don't think weakness to flash would deter me from using them. Hand held flashers will burn out with repeated use, so pre-emptive use is out. Unnerfed mesons would allow you to take somebody out, before they even think of grabbing the flash and before you get in range of the flash.

(01-24-2017, 08:37 PM)somepotato Wrote: We're currently unable to implement that, thats why this thread was created.

(01-24-2017, 12:20 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Would it be possible to apply that wavy filter that a cloaking field has to people and borgs when someone is wearing the mesons

(01-24-2017, 06:55 AM)Mordent Wrote: Perhaps have it apply the VISOR distortion (the one that lets you see while blind/without eyes) to your view as a marginal downside?