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Hull something or other
#1
What started off as a single incident spiraled out of control into a three round shit show. This is going to be quite long so strap in.

Let me start by saying that I'm going through some personal crap and am on edge. I hopped on hoping to calm my nerves and have a good time with friends. What happened was a single person breaking the rules and then everyone hopping on the bandwagon to defend them. It's a thing that happens a lot around here, I've noticed. I will keep player names out of this, apart from the admin who was initially present, as their lack of action in this situation is what allowed for everything to become the horrible mess it turned into. 

It is my belief — based on the rules — that as a player who is neither an antag nor a miscreant, that one shouldn't go around shooting security officers. I was scanning items that were on the ground outside of the teleporter when an unknown person approached me. They were wearing a gas mask, captain's spare ID, armor vest, and captain's hat. They were also completely covered in blood.

Now, I am not the type of officer to shoot first ask questions later. I like to draw things out and give people an opportunity to explain themselves. So, I asked what was with the blood? Their response was to take off, full sprint away from me. I gave chase and we ended up in the room leading into the podbay. At this point, I was still trying to talk and asking them why they ran. They responded by taking out a taser and shooting at me before hopping into a pod and escaping. 

Things continue, I seek them out, blob appears, I come across them and before I'm able to attempt to arrest them, they're running around, gun out and shooting at me again. They managed to stun me and ran off. I assumed that because people were around they weren't going to stand there trying to beat an officer to death (according to the player after this was their way of showing how they weren't trying to kill me). I call out over the sec channel that this person is trying to kill me and it's more important than the blob at that moment (my thought process was that they could potentially stun me and feed me to the blob as I tried fighting it).

I manage to arrest them, they're throwing out insults and being a general shit for someone who has just spent the last ten minutes evading and shooting at an officer. They threw in a few comments about me lying by saying they tried to kill me (they also had a stolen sec headset) and I went so far as to correct myself and tell the fellow sec team they had only assaulted me and evaded arrest. For the trouble they've caused me while the station was under threat by a blob, I strip them of their gear and throw them in solitary for 3 minutes: leaving a radio nearby so they're able to call out if something goes wrong and they can't leave when the timer goes off. I go about fighting the blobs and with the help of the crew, we all kill it and search for another one.

I see this person running around throughout this and they're ignoring me so I choose to do the same. They served their time. Let bygones be bygones right? Nope. They stun me and put a straightjacket on me, dragging me into the sec post by QM and stripping me of my gear, spouting nonsense about me lying earlier. I ahelped at this point because it was getting on my nerves. I received no response and sent another ahelp after I began to die due to O2 damage from my internals. Again, credit where it's due, they started healing me once they saw I was dying. I sent another ahelp once a few minutes had passed, wondering where the hell anyone was. Nothing.

It wasn't until after several more minutes the person released me and ran off. An admin then responded saying they spoke with the person about it. I asked if anything was being done and received no further responses. I assume the admin (Hull something) left at this point because nothing further was done.

Now, we get to the shuttle and I try to arrest this person who detained me earlier and my fellow crew takes it upon themselves to attack me repeatedly and get in the way. Wonderful!

ROUND ONE END: Guess who wasn't an antag or a miscreant!

Commence OOC shitshow.

A lot of people stating their opinions about a situation they weren't involved in a rushing to the aide of the person responsible for doing antagonistic things. Did I mention the person was a mentor? And all the other mentors and pubbie folk decided it was let's shit on Atamus day. I'm sure many laughs were had at my expense but whatever, new round, let's drop it.

NOPE.

I latejoin as an officer, only to have one of the offenders who was so eager to rush to the aide of a fellow mentor strip me and steal my pda. As I'm typing an ahelp, along the lines of "wtf", they reenter the shuttle and stun me and do the typical fart on your face repeatedly routine. Normally this is a laugh and whatever but with everyone having just put me through the ringer, combined with personal shit ongoing outside of this, I was a bit frustrated as I saw it as a continuation of the round before and the ooc conversation before. 

I alert the crew that if they desire to be aggressive toward me that I will be aggressive in upholding the law. Now, allow me to clarify, I ONLY ARRESTED PEOPLE BREAKING THE SPACE LAW. I wasn't even doing the whole, I am the Law shtick. I seriously did investigative work, took prints, found culprits, and arrested them all the while still attempting to talk with people before arresting them and after arresting them. First person arrested for assaulting me on the shuttle tries to escape by hopping into disposals and is gibbed by the crusher (I opened the door for it). Second person is arrested for trespassing into Security IMMEDIATELY after I had warned them not to trespass. I put them in the brig and warn them to not attempt to escape. As I leave, they run past and hop into the trash chute. They are gibbed by the crusher as well.

The third person I arrested for breaking into EVA (their prints were everywhere in there) and stealing the RCD. I processed them, confiscated stolen goods and since the power was out, scolded them about stealing and released them back into the station.

Not much else worth noting happened for some time. I stunned the barman and confiscated his shotgun as he didn't have a firearm permit and beepsky would have arrested him anyway. I released him after confiscating it and sent him on his way. He and the crew decided to continue with a verbal harassment and I told him he'd be arrested for harassment if he didn't stop. It continues anyway. We get onto the shuttle; I arrest him; as I drag him into the sec room, the third prisoner (who was an antag all along) sends a ttv onto the shuttle killing almost everyone on board. I eventually jump through their portal before the shuttle can dock with CC and arrest them as the round ends.

ROUND 2 END

Shitshow in OOC once more! Stan you're shit. Stan you should be secbanned. Blah blah blah. Let's all ignore the fact people were teaming up against me (the only sec that round) and again the mentor crew was continuing their verbal assault on me. 

Start Round 3

Hey, there are other sec officers this round! One is on the shuttle with me and starts off with a nice message, "let's all be nice." Agreed.

Only one officer takes it upon himself to clean out the lockers of tasers so that when I arrive in security there is no gear leftover. I stun him to strip his belt and grab one of the tasers and chastise him over stealing all the gear. Enter Detective who is an antag and stuns me, cuffs us both, then murders me.

I am cloned and before I can get my shoes on the officer who I stunned earlier has come in , stunned and cuffed me, and thrown me in the portabrig. I'm stripped of my belongings, which are then thrown in the crusher, and tossed in solitary, completely naked. After around 20 minutes someone comes in and throws me into a portal into space, killing me. Mind you they weren't an antag either. Just joining in on the "fun" I guess?


So, that's everything. I'm truly sorry for the extremely long tale here but it's necessary that I fully explain the situation so we're all on the same page. I hope others involved will comment so we can squash and issues that they have with me. I'm a reasonable person but I feel the rules of this server are here to ensure everyone is given the opportunity to have fun and enjoy themselves. When someone breaks the rules and then nothing is done about it, it sets a poor precedence for everyone else. When the person breaks the rules and others come rushing to defend their actions and condemns the person who was directly affected by their actions, I feel it is again on the admins to mediate the situation and restore order. Mob mentality took hold in a major way tonight.

Please add your side of the tale to this if you'd like but please refrain from opining on situations you were not directly involved in; that's what led to so much of this to begin with.

Sorry for swearing so much.
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#2
This isn't really an admin complaint, as far as I can tell...

An admin dealt with your initial ahelp (we don't typically tell the person ahelping what the result is - normally a stern talking to and a note on their profile is enough, depending on their history). That none were around to respond to your later ones is an issue, but could have been summarized pretty concisely as "I had a legitimate ahelp that went unheard, can you guys try to be available more?" (to which my answer would be "we'll never be around 100% of the time, but we do get a log of ahelps in the IRC so are probably aware something happened").

I don't see any mention of you ahelping at all in that third round, either.

EDIT: I'm going to pre-emptively remind people not to peanut post on this, because I feel like this is the sort of thread that needs it.
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#3
I forgot to mention that I was ahelping in the third round as the whole stripping, birgging, and killing ordeal was happening.

Also, my complaint is in regards to the lack of action during the proceeding events: the fallout of the initial incident. This bit:

Quote:I feel the rules of this server are here to ensure everyone is given the opportunity to have fun and enjoy themselves. When someone breaks the rules and then nothing is done about it, it sets a poor precedence for everyone else. When the person breaks the rules and others come rushing to defend their actions and condemns the person who was directly affected by their actions, I feel it is again on the admins to mediate the situation and restore order.
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#4
(08-16-2017, 04:21 AM)atamusvaleo Wrote: Also, my complaint is in regards to the lack of action during the proceeding events: the fallout of the initial incident.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. You said that "An admin then responded saying they spoke with the person about it. I asked if anything was being done and received no further responses. I assume the admin (Hull something) left at this point because nothing further was done."

What, specifically, would you have liked here? Sure, getting nothing back isn't great, but they dealt with the issue at the time and then, presumably, logged off. Not every rules violation comes with a ban, ordinarily we check their history to see how much of a shit they've been then use our best judgement. We don't tell the person who ahelped what the outcome is, because it's not really any of their business.

The fact that the meta grudge carried over is stupid, and warranted admin intervention in the second and third rounds. It seems none were about for the second, and the third an admin did check in but only after you left. Again, we can't be around 100% of the time.
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#5
When the third round was happening and I had ahelped, I again never received any message from the admin who came to check in then. I was still online when they joined and didn't press the matter because I was in the process of typing out my initial post and thought it to be the best course of action.

I understand you're not omnipresent and omniscient beings but better communication and support of people affected by griefers would be greatly appreciated.

Security is a hard enough job as is and people harassing the few Sec players (as a nonantag) out there is uncalled for: especially removing an officer from the game for an extended period. It's behaviour that is pervasive in the community, highlighted by the many threads of people complaining about it. If the admins want to encourage people to play Security then harsher action should be taken against people breaking the rules in this regard.

I also do feel it is my business to know that someone who was holding me captive and nearly killing me in the process was reprimanded or to at least have some show of support from said admin when the community turns against me for it after.

Nothing was done and as a result, I was subjected to an onslaught of verbal assaults against my character (as a person) and will now have a decent group of the mentor crew, many of whom I considered myself on good terms with, thinking I'm a poor player and person.

If the admins are unable to be present and properly monitor the servers, perhaps your team should consider bringing in new members.
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#6
Both of you adminhelped conflicting reports, I checked the logs, I talked to the guy who I noticed adminhelped first, based on that I told both of you to knock it off and leave each other alone, I didn't, and don't, feel that any further action was warranted. I didn't really interact with you very much, because, to put it delicately, your attitude was abrasive. Shortly thereafter I logged off, and pet my cat. He's a very good cat.
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#7
It is sort of true we need more admins.

As to what happened to you: well, I am glad someone listened to my advice for how to play security at least.

The security attitude issue is a bit of a weird one, for me, though. Because if we did actually crack down on messing with security we'd also need to crack down on security being bad, otherwise they'd be the grief job. And if we don't, then well, people mess with security constantly.

Is messing with security okay if they're arresting you for minor crimes that don't actually hurt anyone? Probably not? Probably? I've had some great rounds with people messing with me as security, though.

Is running away from them and resisting arrest despite not being an antag okay? This is kind of a difficult question.

I just really don't know how you'd fix this security attitude problem other than my usual opinion of telling everyone to not give a fuck either way and fucking keep the game inside of the game, which I guess is the main issue here. That they didn't, maybe. It's a bit hard to figure out if they actually held a grudge against you looking through the logs, the backseat administrating from mentors is annoying as hell though and I wish that they'd stop.


Quote:Only one officer takes it upon himself to clean out the lockers of tasers so that when I arrive in security there is no gear leftover. I stun him to strip his belt and grab one of the tasers and chastise him over stealing all the gear. Enter Detective who is an antag and stuns me, cuffs us both, then murders me.
The guy you arrested for this apparently said that he only took one of the tasers and wasn't the culprit. Apparently the guy who killed you through the portal also killed himself through the same portal because he thought it lead to a valid location and not death. I dunno I think this was you maybe letting your feelings be a bit clouded over getting angry, you definitely shouldn't play security if you want to relax, though.


You do have a point with that communication thing, though. We try to respond to every adminhelp by saying we will look into it, and don't really say anything more because doing so would ruin whether or not they're antagonists. 

I recommend anyone who adminhelps people who they think might be antags to just act normally after adminhelping them, that is, to treat them as possible antagonists.

I will now shame all of those people who thought they could backseat administrate in OOC:

These two guys are wrong, their opinions are stupid:


Quote:[21:26:51] OOC: overactive sec is shitsec


Wrong.

Quote:[21:27:18] OOC: Stan, if you're a security officer, your duty is not to arrest every random crimer. Maybe on a Roleplay Server it is, but this is Goonstation LLJK US 2, we don't HAVE roleplay here and as such you have no need to follow space law. As a Security Officer, the crew is supposed to be able to trust you to defend them and help the crew. You broke all of that, and you were shit the whole way.I know this message will get lost on you, but next time you're security consider your job.

You're not an admin, shut up. Also you're wrong on every account: if it's not a roleplay server then there's less of a need for security to give a shit about who they piss off, isn't there. Not to mention the irony of saying you have to do your job as security on the non-roleplay server.



Quote:[21:28:18] OOC: Atamus, your job as a Security Officer is to defend the crew and help it out. You arrested everyone aiding the crew, and let the antagonists slip by


Wrong, it's to arrest criminals. Stop trying to make the game boring.
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#8
Thank you. I truly appreciate the reponses from all of the admins and for the work you folks put into dealing with the myriad of issues you must all deal with.

I don't hold a grudge against any of the people involved and I typically enjoy interacting with all of these people. Again, I think it was just mob mentality taking over and they rushed to the aid of a fellow mentor over a pubbie.

The person who killed me via the portal was very kind and reached out to me in deadchat, apologized for it all, and explained what happened. Sorry, I forgot to mention it in the origonal post: it was a lot of information and that slipped my mind.

I'm sorry for handling my frustrations poorly. I should have trusted my instincts to not play this game in the first place when I was in a bad mood. It all compounded very quickly and I had no patience left by the time everything kicked off. I don't fault anyone for their actions as I am a flawed person and make my fair share of mistakes as well.
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