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Darkchis
#1
Admin name: Self Darkchis
Server: lljk2
Date/Time: 19/12/2016

Synopsis:  I want to preface this with the fact that I think Darkchis is a good admin.    I say this because I don't want to seem like I'm bagging on them.

Yesterday,  I accidently let off an artibomb outside podbay.    I'd spent about thirty minutes on the soviet shuttle making glowing fruit to produce omnizine for medbay  (I believe it was Jim Avernum who ran into me while doing this).  On my way out for guffaws I activated an artifact that dinged when I touched it.

  When it activated my kiddo was asleep behind me and my immediate response thinking it was a noise maker was to minimize and mute. As a  result I didn't see a bomb message.     I'd like to say now that I've just come back after being gone for a year that I'm rusty, but I fully acknowledge that I should have looked.    It was stupid.   I fully own the mistake but I've also only ever in my entire time playing activated one other artibomb on a traitor round, which ended up gibbing me because at that time I also thought it was a noise maker.  (on a whole other side note that text should really really be red letting people know.)

So I popped it outside of podbay, and was in crit because my dumbass forgot internals.   Im eating fruit and get back in the pod when Im blacked out and see my pod explode.     Suddenly podbays gone.  I still don't realize  whats happened.   If you check the logs I even had said I found a noisemaker artifact, and if you check the logs of that post moment Im frantically trying to give someone glowing fruit to heal them. 

It wasn't until after I died that I realized what happened.  I felt like a fuckin idiot.  I felt bad (you can see that in the chat logs). 

About three hours later I get a message from Darkchis about it.  I explain what happened, how stupid I felt... and I get reperma'd.

My objection is that it was pretty clear from the chat in game, from the positioning of the bomb (if Id wanted to do damage Id have left it at the security  warp point) and my general explanation that it was a mistake.  A huge fucking stupid mistake, but I was just gotten back and big artifacts are something I don't mess with much because in my experience about all they are good for his turning you into a borg.

I was reperma'd for an awful mistake, given no benefit of the doubt despite a clear effort to adminhelp and be better (i've used adminhelp as often as possible instead of taking things into my own hands)   Despite being one of two people who dies from the artibomb and every clue in the game would have told you I had no idea (people don't generally stand right next to a spot about to be blown up after they've spent thirty minutes growing glowing fruit).


I realized I'm just back, but I was given no room to make a mistake.    It was a godawful one but even admins sometimes mess up from lack of knowledge.     I would have understood a temp ban, but I was a scientist, if I had wanted to blow shit up I could have made a can bomb.   

All evidence in the game would have pointed to me not knowing.  I lost thirty minutes of growing when that thing blew up on me.

I get it, I was newly unbanned, but when all evidence pointed to it being a mistake I feel it was unfair to reperma me.

I didn't want to appeal because I do think even with that kind of mistake a ban is appropriate, I just don't know that it was fair to reperma someone over a mistake.   I'd just gotten back,  and that was an easy thing to miss.
#2
Hey, I was kinda involved so I'll post.
I don't think it was exclusively this event that lead to you being re-perma'd.
You are known for constantly skirting the midline between ban-worthy and acceptable, that horrid grey area.
Like one day or so right after your ban got lifted, you got into a metagaming argument with another duder. That is the same exact kind of thing that got you banned last time. Doing the same stuff you were doing before does not really show sign of improvement/change. You've been around the station before, and you know about bomb artifacts. In fact, bomb artifacts play a specific sound that no other artifact plays. That's all I really want to say on the matter. If it makes you feel better, the text artifacts give is red now.
#3
I've genuinely only been around once when it was activated. Like I said I don't mess with artifacts much. And yeah I remember the meta gaming argument, I've been actively just trying to say "but I'm just going to drop it" when I start getting into these discussions. The thing that got me banned previously was my tendency to take things into my own hands with people and berate newbies for mistakes. I've actively gone out of my way to avoid that now.

I do feel that it's awesome that it shows red text now, cause especially when you're off doing your own thing in space, it's easy to miss.

(and I'm generally unfamiliar with the bomb artifact sound as a result, was my point)

As far as I know, this was all that got me rebanned. I've not had anyone say anything to me otherwise or get on to me for doing anything. I've pretty regularly avoided the grey area and kept my actions clean, even dying for it as I was asked to

As far as the sound being distinct, like if you don't know what you're listening for it's just another loud noise.
#4
This particular incident is what triggered the ban, but I myself have seen how you still seem to be a rather toxic player, which is in fact another reason, as Zewaka stated.

I made the ban permanent because someone in your situation should definitely be more careful. Coming back from a Sploded ban means you should be really thoughtful of pretty much every action you take in the game. That's also part of the reason I decided against giving you the benefit of the doubt, as you've had plenty of chances to learn, and according to our conversation ingame, you've seen those artifacts in the past, and nothing tells me that you indeed didn't see the warning and decided to still go ahead and bring it to the station. You claiming it was a noise artifact could have been just an excuse, but I'm not calling you a liar, it just seemed to be a rather convenient set of events, which is why I made the call I did.

I also approached you after an hour due to some internet issues and also discussing this situation and giving it some thought too, not three, but that's just details.

In all, I feel the ban is appropiate, but if other admins do wish to give their thoughts here and express their opinions, they're more than invited.
#5
All I can say is it was a genuine accident. From my perspective, though to be fair I may just have incomplete information, I was the one most damage by that bomb. I don't think anyone else but one other person was killed and while the bomb was a strong one, it actually hadnt hit anyone too hard.

As far as me being toxic, I've gotten into a few arguments, but generally if you go look at any time I start to argue you'll usually see me say "I'm just going to drop it". This was me recognizing cantankerous situations where I was being inflammatory and just making the effort to not do so.

I think the exception is with Dexter Grifflez, who stole a secs ID two minutes into the game and had gone traitor hunting with stolen sec equipment and killed the traitor by eighteen minutes.

I'd judged it three hours by three rounds passing but I think one was a blob so that might have been the time discrepency.

What had confused me is by the position of the bomb and everything around it you can pretty well see it was a mistake, but then I'm also only seeing it from my position.

That said I do understand that given no one was there, and all there was to go on was the circumstances, I don't think you were being needlessly mean. I just thought it was a bit harsh after I'd explained myself, and given that all evidence in the round pointed to me being caught off guard.

I am happy to hear they changed the text red, as the only other time I've ever activated an artibomb was on a traitor round where it blew me up.

I've got a lot of knowledge in the game, but artifacts, like telescience, is one of those areas I don't dive much into outside of the beakers.

I appreciate your reply, and like I said this was a complaint about the situation, not you in general. I wasn't even going to make it except two other people I know who play the game said I should make it. One of them was in team speak at the time and could vouch for the fact that I was caught off guard by it, though he wasn't playing space station 13.

He was there when I said "oh fuck, I think that noise maker was a bomb" (Johnny Guitar)

That said I respect the situation. If I'm allowed to appeal in a month, I'd appreciate it as it was a mistake. If that was just kind of too big of a fuck up accidental or not, I appreciate you at least coming in and discussing it. Have a happy holiday
#6
It was still a bomb that destroyed around half of the station, and it did kill someone else, as you pointed up there as well.

There should really be no exceptions. If what Grifflez did was something that awful, adminhelp it, otherwise, yeah there's no point in bringing it up at all. You've still done the same things, calling people out in OOC about things they do you don't appreciate, and telling them stuff like "oh you'll slip soon enough". I can admit you don't seem to do it as often or don't escalate it into yelling at them through the radio for several rounds, which is why it wasn't what led to the ban, but it still sets a bad precedent.

The time thing was just a comment, it's not really too important but yeah a few rounds went through due to the already mentioned circumstances previous to me approaching you about it.

Seeing as this is a complaint with my name on it (even if it's not about me in general like you said just now), I'm not sure if I should be the one dictating if you get to appeal or not, but this does kinda look like a ban appeal already, seeing as the point is to get the ban reduced at least.
#7
You also had to be told several times the other day about your conduct towards another player you felt harshly done by, and felt again that you could ignore admin requests. It appears little has changed despite your claims.
#8
In brief. The previous ban was placed based on the total sum of your behaviour. There was a lot of stuff hitting the gray area and debates over any one given incident were common. The part with metagrudges and callouts over events from past rounds was also a deciding factor.

That was then, this is now.

You get unbanned about a month ago with the premise that a lot can happen during a year, people change, etc. What we've been seeing so far is much of the same stuff. Now we have an incident with this artifact bomb that is being explained away as a noisemaker in spite of the huge red text saying Frogsiren "The ominous doodad begins catastrophically overloading!" Frogsiren when the artifact is activated.

You're clever enough to figure out how this looks to us.

Due to this and the factors surrounding the original ban we think it's quite enough stuff from you. We were really hoping you'd return with a change in mindset and attitude, but the second chance provided didn't really reach all the way.

To respond to the complaint, I do not think DarkChis has done anything wrong in this situation. Primarily because it was a call made based on the situation both before the original ban and after the lift.
#9
Y'know when I said "Stay outta' trouble!" and you were all "Will do!" I was hoping that'd mean you would not end up banned again in less than a week.

I was more than happy to pull the trigger on your unban, it'd been a year, you wrote a decent appeal, enough of the active admin staff seemed to agree. But here we are again. Some folks thought I was being a big ol' naive sucker for believing you and I guess they were totally right!

I thoroughly endorse DarkChis' actions in this case.
#10
(12-21-2016, 11:38 AM)Spy_Guy Wrote: In brief. The previous ban was placed based on the total sum of your behaviour. There was a lot of stuff hitting the gray area and debates over any one given incident were common. The part with metagrudges and callouts over events from past rounds was also a deciding factor.

That was then, this is now.

You get unbanned about a month ago with the premise that a lot can happen during a year, people change, etc. What we've been seeing so far is much of the same stuff. Now we have an incident with this artifact bomb that is being explained away as a noisemaker in spite of the huge red text saying Frogsiren "The ominous doodad begins catastrophically overloading!" Frogsiren when the artifact is activated.

You're clever enough to figure out how this looks to us.

Due to this and the factors surrounding the original ban we think it's quite enough stuff from you. We were really hoping you'd return with a change in mindset and attitude, but the second chance provided didn't really reach all the way.

To respond to the complaint, I do not think DarkChis has done anything wrong in this situation. Primarily because it was a call made based on the situation both before the original ban and after the lift.

So The text got turned red by my suggestion AFTER this happened. Again I'd minimized to turn off the sound.
(12-21-2016, 10:04 AM)Wonkmin Wrote: You also had to be told several times the other day about your conduct towards another player you felt harshly done by, and felt again that you could ignore admin requests. It appears little has changed despite your claims.

That was actually the time I adminhelped someone not they adminhelped me. I did as I was told and adminhelped them as they were killing me. I said I'd kill them if I saw them again you said "no it's been resolved" and I respected that. I did exactly as I was told. I've been doing as I was told.

And yeah a few times I got mad in OOC, but I made a concentrated effort to recognize when I was doing so and would say "I'm just going to drop ti".

I've not been messaged once by any admins regarding my conduct cause I've kept it clean. Like I said, the time Wonk is referencing THAT WAS ME ADMINHELPING SOMEONE. I let someone damn near kill me and adminhelped it because I was told to adminhelp it and not take it into my own hands even if it put me at an ingame disadvantage. I've made a concentrated effort to improve. And apparantly someone agreed with me that the text should be made red because AFTER the bomb blew up on me and I suggested it... it was changed. My whole point is the thing was an accident, it was clearly an accident, and I was perma'd over it as though I'd intentionally set off a bomb.

I strongly feel like it's a case of "he said a couple mean things, and then this happened welp nothings changed" Despite all my efforts. I don't know. I appreciate the chance to discuss it, but it seems like the past was stacked against me no matter how hard I tried and no how much evidence I put forward on this one.

Merry Christmas, and I wish you all a happy new year.
#11
There really shouldn't be any need for warnings when you're coming back from a second Sploded, I feel. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but you should be expected to be on your best BEST behavior, and not repeat the same things that got you banned in the first place, even if it's just a little bit and then you stop, or it's just that one guy and not everyone, or whatever. It shouldn't happen at all.

The conversation with Wonk, which actually was also me talking to you, came from you saying "well if he stays away from genetics I won't" and then Wonk told you that there should be no ifs to that situation in particular, which led to you actually telling security or the captain. There shouldn't have been an "if" there.

The text for the bomb was changed over to red after this incident, but like I told you when we talked previous to the ban being applied, the color doesn't mean much, the situation itself is what matters here, and that didn't exactly change from the color being red or black or whatever, it was still bold, and it was still a warning.

The past was indeed put there, and was very much a factor when dealing with this case as a whole. Someone on a clean sheet would have just gotten yelled at, and maybe a smaller ban, but someone with your history didn't get that, I'm afraid.

Happy holidays.
#12
Timeline.

Vampirate's an asshole and always involved in shady shit juuuuust this side of a ban.

Vampirate stumbles over the line, gets permad.

'i've changed guys really i swear'

Vampirate gets unbanned.

Vampirate's an asshole and always involved in shady shit juuuuust this side of a ban.

Vampirate stumbles over the line, gets permad.

'i've changed guys really i swear for real this time'

Vampirate gets unbanned.

Vampirate's an asshole and always involved in shady shit juuuuust this side of a ban.

Vampirate stumbles over the line, gets permad.

'no you see i've really for real changed this time guys see it was all just a misunderstanding i promise'

$include that_textwall_i_posted_in_another_appeal_thread_about_hidden_poops
#13
(12-22-2016, 05:13 PM)popecrunch Wrote: Timeline.

Vampirate's an asshole and always involved in shady shit juuuuust this side of a ban.

Vampirate stumbles over the line, gets permad.

'i've changed guys really i swear'

Vampirate gets unbanned.

Vampirate's an asshole and always involved in shady shit juuuuust this side of a ban.

Vampirate stumbles over the line, gets permad.

'i've changed guys really i swear for real this time'

Vampirate gets unbanned.

Vampirate's an asshole and always involved in shady shit juuuuust this side of a ban.

Vampirate stumbles over the line, gets permad.

'no you see i've really for real changed this time guys see it was all just a misunderstanding i promise'

$include that_textwall_i_posted_in_another_appeal_thread_about_hidden_poops

Do feel free to point out the shady shit I been doing this go round.

To Darkchis comment

Edit:Also worth noting I'd never been sploded before. I don't know where that came from.

The first time I left the game as under agreeable terms with lots of ingame friends.

IMO my smartest move would have actually been to take the OMJ route and join irc and make nice with people and have friends, but honestly I got my own community. See ya around. I wish the best for everyone and the game, though somehow I think the numbers will continue to decline.

Sort of like the growth economy the "ban for more and more things to improve the community" is an approach that can't be sustained. But I do love the game and enjoyed the community in it. I'll still try to chuck people your way.
#14
okay thank you

locking this now as it's not a legit complaint


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