SPACE LAW (needs updating?)

[aft2001]

I'd love to add or suggest some potential new laws, clauses, or other things for the Space Law wiki page and perhaps the ingame Space Law book. Also potentially making Space Law a more handy guideline and also creating less arguments ingame when people try to use loopholes by saying "oh space law doesn't say its illegal so i can do it".

Should it be updated? And if so, who has permission to do so, since Space Law is a bit more sensitive than other pages.

And while I know this part of the post belongs in ideas and suggestions, this post is about to exist and I've already posted an idea recently and I don't wanna spam.

Potential new laws:

Animal Abuse - Any non-authorized harm done to any mammalian, reptilian, or apidae life form outside of self defense or the defense of others; with the lack of defense leading to potentially severe harm; is deemed both illegal and immoral. There will be a fine of up to 250 credits, as well as a sentence of up to two minutes.

Disruption of the Workplace - Causing any significant inhibition of one or more's duties, leading to decreased productivity or loss of work/research. If the disruption is accidental, then a ticketing or fining of up to 150 credits, depending on severity, is required. If the disruption is deliberate, such as stealing large amounts of equipment, then a prison sentence of up to 3 minutes and a fining of up to 300 credits is applicable, depending on the severity of the disruption.

Public Indecency - Not wearing a jumpsuit or other form of body covering clothing while in public (Bathing and swimming nullify this offense) Offenders will be ticketed and given a standard NanoTrasen approved jumpsuit.

Substance Abuse - Anyone who is caught using illegal narcotics outside of approved medicinal purposes will be fined 100 credits and sentenced to two minutes in the brig after addiction therapy in a sleeper. 

Narcotics Manufacturing/Distribution - Anyone caught producing or distributing narcotics without approval of their respective Head will be fined 300 credits and be sentenced to 3 minutes in the brig. If over 100 units of narcotics are discovered, the sentence is increased to 4 minutes with a fine of 500 credits. If 200+ units are being manufactured, they will have 5 minutes prison sentence and a 600 credit fine, as well as demotion to an appropriate rank.

[ferriswheel1]

Narcotics Manufacturing/Distribution - Anyone caught producing or distributing narcotics without approval of their respective Head will be fined 300 credits and be sentenced to 3 minutes in the brig. If over 100 units of narcotics are discovered, the sentence is increased to 4 minutes with a fine of 500 credits. If 200+ units are being manufactured, the offender will receive a promotion for good work ethic.

Fixed

But yeah, these are good. I like the addition of addiction therapy in a sleeper to substance abuse, but maybe tone down the sentence a little? Complete therapy in a sleeper takes around 1:30-2:00 already.

[NesMettaur]

Maybe have a selection of (silly) laws that are inevitably broken that randomly change every round?
For example, "no littering food on the floor." As a bonus it also lets Detectives investigate the HEINOUS crime of littering when they have nothing better to do.

To go with ones that become staple like "animal abuse."

[Firebarrage]

I'd be careful about adding things like this. It seems like it would open the door for bad cops to run in and arrest players out of boredom for silly things that are just part of a normal round. Security should be focusing on stopping antags, not the random assistant that punched a space pig.

[Floorface]

I'd be careful about adding things like this. It seems like it would open the door for bad cops to run in and arrest players out of boredom for silly things that are just part of a normal round. Security should be focusing on stopping antags, not the random assistant that punched a space pig.

The brig times are so short though, does it really matter?

[Haine]

I'd be careful about adding things like this. It seems like it would open the door for bad cops to run in and arrest players out of boredom for silly things that are just part of a normal round. Security should be focusing on stopping antags, not the random assistant that punched a space pig.

Space law isn't really officially a thing outside of the RP server which is usually set to extended, so there's usually no antags to stop.

[Burrito Justice]

Animal Monkey Abuse - Any non-authorized harm done to any mammalian, reptilian, or apidae life form monkey outside of self defense or the defense of others; with the lack of defense leading to potentially severe harm; is deemed both illegal and immoral. There will be a fine of up to 250 credits, as well as a sentence of up to two minutes.

Flourish where are you.

[aft2001]

Animal Monkey Abuse - Any non-authorized harm done to any mammalian, reptilian, or apidae life form monkey outside of self defense or the defense of others; with the lack of defense leading to potentially severe harm; is deemed both illegal and immoral. There will be a fine of up to 250 credits, as well as a sentence of up to two minutes.

Flourish where are you.

So you crossed out apidae life form... Burrito now officially supports bee abuse.

[Sundance]

I don't have a problem with these laws per se, but argueing the vagueness and loopholes of space law isn't necessaraly a bad thing; they are no where near the same level as AI lawset, one is mandatory, the other is to the spirit of it.

I'd argue that it'd be better to lump in the drugs with "Possesion", disruption of the workplace could fall under "Harassment" or "Gross Negligence", and animal abuse could be argued as "Gross Negligence", but could fall under a wider branch of "Destruction of Property", which is akin to Grand Theft.

I'd also argue that if there's a need for security to crack down on drugs or murder of animals, then it'd probably be a better idea for having security (heck nevermind security, the detective literally has nothing to do), more busy, whether that be where random events were they are actually required, or a low % of hardmode traitor to really have security something to do (1-2 Hardmode Traitors per 15-20)

[aft2001]

Well, Sundance, it makes sense that Security shouldn't be cracking down constantly. However on LLJK1 it'd be nice to have a concrete, sensible, and complete set of laws with clauses and other conditions, for R O L E P L A Y! 

And I have a thread that has some ideas on how to implement hardmode traitors and stuff to LLJK1 here: https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=7577

[Sundance]

Well, Sundance, it makes sense that Security shouldn't be cracking down constantly. However on LLJK1 it'd be nice to have a concrete, sensible, and complete set of laws with clauses and other conditions, for R O L E P L A Y! 

And I have a thread that has some ideas on how to implement hardmode traitors and stuff to LLJK1 here: https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=7577

I'll be a bit more concise what I mean by lumping together laws and why rules lawyering with space law is a good thing

Rules lawyering with AI laws = Mostly bad, used for the purpose of avoiding suicide laws or perceiving the crew as non-human threat. On the occasion a good thing, example would interperting a poorly worded law.

Rules lawyering with Space Law = Pretty good, because if the prisoner feels like he's in the right, could be used as an arguing point if the prisoner lawyers up. I feel if the laws are specific to every situation, then this interesting dialogue would break down and result in "Well, peeing is a manditory 1 minute sentence" instead of being argued whether it is negligence or potentially harrassment, and the punishment that goes with that.

However I do feel space law could definetely have a "Disruption" category in the "mild" setting, as often complaints that I get through security are of this mild "disruption" type EG: "Bill won't stop following me" "Bill keeps stabbing himself" "Bill disarmed me when I was carrying out stitching to fix Bill"

[aft2001]

Ah, yeah, I see what ya mean, Sundance... Also, speaking of Lawyers, that should be a permanent job available, or at least the suit and briefcase and stuff should be available in Security or the Courtroom.

Well, I think this thread could be dedicated to building upon Space Law? Also the Law doesn't focus on ONLY offenses! It also focuses on requirements, specifications, and other things. Can't think of any good ones at the moment, so, I'll wait for a while and try to think of some!

[ferriswheel1]

Maybe the Lawyer, or some cool legal officer like a JAG, could be a permanent position on LLJK 1? The RP server sounds like the perfect lace for a role that is mainly RP, and where actual law matters more to security than simply stopping antags.

[Bologna Prime]

Between gimmicks, actual practice of certain sections of research, and the good fun of beating the shit out of monkeys; I'd say an animal abuse law would take more than it'd give. Since when does NT care about morality, anyway? Drug busts are cool, though.

[Sundance]

Between gimmicks, actual practice of certain sections of research, and the good fun of beating the shit out of monkeys; I'd say an animal abuse law would take more than it'd give. Since when does NT care about morality, anyway? Drug busts are cool, though.

If I was a space lawyer, i'd go down the rather dystopian route of viewing animals as NT property, and thus animal harm would be regarded as "destruction of property". Who owns what animal? The Captain could argue that any animal is his animal on the station as he's an NT official, but it could also be argued that each animal is owned by their respective department, i.e: The monkeys in Genetics, the Bees in botany, etc.

The 100's of animals the QM purchased could be viewed as QM's animals in that regard, but this is a grey area.


tl;dr: It seems fitting of space law to treat animals as property, whether it be for research purposes, or for leisure.