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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6217
For reference.
This appeal process bothered me here because...
A. While the player had that huge "Free Beatbeat" campaign waged... in 2012 the administration gave even sploded bans an allowance to return. Hell even Kingston and Lorde Doom were allowed to come back, albeit under different names.
B. The evidence presented that he was lying was a half literate person claiming to be in on the shenanigans of a well known griefer. If every person who was a newer player trying to connect themselves somehow to an older player was to be believed, half the people would be banned. I grant that it could be true, however that evidence is not conclusive, and the appealer doesn't deny that they have done shitty things and even listed those he DID do shitty things with.
C. The term tranny. I know some consider offensive. Just like some consider the term "retarded" offensive. As someone whose last two relationships were with transexual people (I am not kidding, the circles I run in tend to have quite a few) and numerous friends... it's often a term of endearment or a catchall for when you don't know if a person is a transsexual, a transvestite, or a drag queen. While it skirts the line it's on the wrong side of being a bit too "PCPrincipal"
Over and over I keep seeing "we can reban them if they fuck up" but a few people dogpiled on this dudes reasonable appeal, picked it apart and made accusations based on bare pretenses.
To be clear I didn't like Kingston and his lackies. I did a lil dance when I learned he'd been sploded. But I can also be a shithead from time to time.
Even now I can be, but ultimately I think anyone can find their groove. This guy was given a reban he shouldn't have been given if everyone was pardoned in 2012, and then the complaints above outline my problem with his appeal.
This may get me in trouble. This maybe called stupid. But I think this thread had too much of a mob mentality feel to it.
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Let me break down this as far as I can understand it.
Quote:B. The evidence presented that he was lying was a half literate person claiming to be in on the shenanigans of a well known griefer. If every person who was a newer player trying to connect themselves somehow to an older player was to be believed, half the people would be banned. I grant that it could be true, however that evidence is not conclusive, and the appealer doesn't deny that they have done shitty things and even listed those he DID do shitty things with.
The evidence is the other admins remembering he was shit, continued to be shit, was shit elsewhere and never stopped, never showed remorse or chilled out, I do not think it's too much of a stretch to trust other admins, do you?
Quote:C. The term tranny. I know some consider offensive. Just like some consider the term "retarded" offensive. As someone whose last two relationships were with transexual people (I am not kidding, the circles I run in tend to have quite a few) and numerous friends... it's often a term of endearment or a catchall for when you don't know if a person is a transsexual, a transvestite, or a drag queen. While it skirts the line it's on the wrong side of being a bit too "PCPrincipal"
Quote:Over and over I keep seeing "we can reban them if they fuck up" but a few people dogpiled on this dudes reasonable appeal, picked it apart and made accusations based on bare pretenses.
How is lying about metagaming and the actual reason you were banned "reasonable"?
Anyway that's the relevant points responded too.
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Because there was no proof he was lying except some person bragging that they used to play with him on teamspeak. There's no proof that person was doing anything other than bragging to look cool. He already answered in his appeal the charges he was appealing.
He hasn't continued to be shit on goon cause he wasn't here. He claims to have chilled out elsewhere.
As for my explanation of how I disagree with the assessment of tranny as aslur. If you disagree with someone who is an active member of the lgbt community, well that's fine, we disagree amongst ourselves as well, but again... a lot of people find "retarded" to be a slur... it's a pc debate which still rages... but it's considered by a large portion not to be a slur. You're free to disagree, but it is a term for which the connotations in which it is used are important. He used it casually, but without any particular malice.
So far no proof has been presented other than some other person's half hearted claims and unsubstantiated claims that he ever metagamed.
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Alright we can keep arguing like this forever, we could keep arguing about what "conclusive" proof even is when metagaming, or why trusted, old admins aren't good enough proof to keep someone banned and why some low-effort ban appeal with not a lot of politeness in it doesn't make us want to really unban anyone.
But why would we do that? It's not even your ban appeal, Vampirate. I can appreciate that you want to keep the admins in check or whatever, but do you know why Beatbeat didn't make a complaint? Because he put zero effort into getting unbanned, he just took that as being granted then when he saw he was going to be denied he pm'd several admins in IRC hoping, I guess, that he could annoy them to unban him or something. This is not a man that's worth the effort defending.
Oh yeah also: Quote:As for my explanation of how I disagree with the assessment of tranny as aslur. If you disagree with someone who is an active member of the lgbt community, well that's fine, we disagree amongst ourselves as well, but again... a lot of people find "retarded" to be a slur... it's a pc debate which still rages... but it's considered by a large portion not to be a slur. You're free to disagree, but it is a term for which the connotations in which it is used are important. He used it casually, but without any particular malice.
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I suppose I like to think everyone can be better? That everyone should get a chance at redemption. I get that he could have addressed more, and said more in his appeal... hell Kingston certainly did. At the same time, if all bans were removed in late 2012 including his... why was he automatically rebanned to begin with? It seems to be singling out one dude. I could see name banning him so he's on random for a while. It's just a thing to me. It's the same reason I argue for the KKK to be allowed to hold rallies when they'd probably see my boyfriend and I dead if they could. It's because freedoms and consideration only matter when they're applied evenly. Because otherwise you start moving the line closer and closer to an ideal. That may sound retarded, but to me if everyone got a reprieve, then doesn't that mean everyone? If everyone got another chance doesn't that mean everyone? My problem is ultimately that I'm not the greatest of guys, but I used to be way worse.
I think if you're giving everyone a second chance, then leaving it open for admins to say "oh except that guy, I don't like that guy" sets a dangerous precedent where things can get personal. And vendettas prevent people from playing. A thriving community needs players. Plenty of shitheads of come back to be awesome people. A couple became mins. ( I don't mean that they're still shitheads there, I just mean that they reformed). It's my opinion, and I feel what you're saying too, but to me he had his chance to prove himself taken away. It's like shooting him in the head and saying "he probably would have hung himself with the rope if we gave it to him anyway, right guys?"
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"I disapprove of how you play, but I will defend to the death your right to grief a 2d spaceman game" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall, The Grife of Voltaire.
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I suppose that is it, yes  Though I hope they're grief would be kept to the creative and amusing type that is allowed, and not the shitty "blast random people and take their ID" type.
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Look if he wanted to be seen as having become better as a player then he should have shown that in the ban appeal, his chance at redemption was the ban appeal, and he blew it. Also his ban reason wasn't solely cult of personality but also metagaming so what would a name ban solve? Also what does the KKK have to do with ANYTHING?
Also I just want to repeat that this wasn't your ban appeal and you are defending someone who couldn't be fucked to write more than nine sentences in his ban appeal.
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His ban was for old suspicion of metagaming three years ago, before all bans were removed. A ban was reinvoked after EVERYONE's bans were removed. He wasn't caught metagaming this go round, he was just suddenly banned. He wrote a paragraph explaining his current situation. There was nothing that got him banned this time other than him being him. So which is it then, were all bans removed and everyone is getting a second chance or are all bans removed except the people other people don't like? And the dude isn't big on writing text walls. I'm defending someone because their ban was wrong under the current circumstances. I don't care if he wrote an essay, his ban appeal was also locked so he couldn't reply anymore, so let's factor that in. I just disagree with how that appeal was handled. It wasn't handled the way ban appeals usually are, and the ban itself was wrong when everyone was given a second chance and the dude gets banned for some shit three years ago.
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Every ban appeal is handled on a case by case basis, and it seemed from the admins who dealt with it, decided that as a team we are better off not letting him back. Occasionally bans are upheld, this is one of those cases.
Upon further review, we will take your complaint into consideration when dealing with future appeals.
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Character Name: Dr. Singh
Just to address Beatbeat's personality and the idea that we're being too politically correct, after being told very clearly in his appeal thread that we don't appreciate the use of slurs he asked around until he found an admin who is trans and PM'd them on irc to repeat the slur. We're exercising our collective judgement, which is what we do, and frankly this complaint is completely ridiculous. He's not being ignored for something he did three years ago.
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