Longer Rounds?

[Ed Venture]

Support for this push and all it entails (nerfing existing features, certain upcoming or planned changes, enforcing RP elements etc) is not unanimous, so throwing "all admins" or "all coders" into one pot isn't necessarily representative of the actual situation. And as was pointed out, some of the changes tend to not work well in practice (such late-joining antagonists in nuke rounds) or are peculiar in light of Goonstation's history and player base.

Convair880 needs to clarify what he meant by this cause it has caused alot of confusion

[Wire]

The borg nerf from a while back was also aimed at making rounds last longer.

I think when multiple admins have stated through these forums, in deadchat and in the SA thread that they would like the rounds to last longer, pretending this isn't an attitude held is a bit disingenuous. Most of the responses seem to be aimed at attempting to deny this is even a thing, when there are mountains of evidence to the contrary. The only acknowledgement that it even exists is a post that says, in essence, it isn't worth bothering justifying because people wouldn't accept it. If this is a thing that is going to be enforced, I'd prefer that the administration is straightforward and honest about it.

Ah yes "the borg nerf". That one. That one nerf that everyone absolutely remembers. Yup.

Anyway, sure some of us like longer rounds (around 60 minutes seems to be a good number) but that's kinda it for your "mountains of evidence" as none of the changes that a few of us spitballed to actually lengthen the round were ever done. Rounds kinda just got longer on their own via player attitude changes and so on.

I find the ~conspiracy theory~ tone of this thread in the past few pages to be hilarious.

[Mageziya]

When the changeling nerf was put in place, I remember an Admin stating in OOC stating the nerf was a beginning of a set of changes to "promote more subterfuge and longer rounds." I can't remember who the admin was, but context was for changes overall, not just the changeling.

[Huff H Law]

When the changeling nerf was put in place, I remember an Admin stating in OOC stating the nerf was a beginning of a set of changes to "promote more subterfuge and longer rounds." I can't remember who the admin was, but context was for changes overall, not just the changeling.

W-what nerf though? We can't remember the nerfs you know.

[Ed Venture]

The borg nerf from a while back was also aimed at making rounds last longer.

I think when multiple admins have stated through these forums, in deadchat and in the SA thread that they would like the rounds to last longer, pretending this isn't an attitude held is a bit disingenuous. Most of the responses seem to be aimed at attempting to deny this is even a thing, when there are mountains of evidence to the contrary. The only acknowledgement that it even exists is a post that says, in essence, it isn't worth bothering justifying because people wouldn't accept it. If this is a thing that is going to be enforced, I'd prefer that the administration is straightforward and honest about it.

Ah yes "the borg nerf". That one. That one nerf that everyone absolutely remembers. Yup.

Anyway, sure some of us like longer rounds (around 60 minutes seems to be a good number) but that's kinda it for your "mountains of evidence" as none of the changes that a few of us spitballed to actually lengthen the round were ever done. Rounds kinda just got longer on their own via player attitude changes and so on.

I find the ~conspiracy theory~ tone of this thread in the past few pages to be hilarious.

When the changeling nerf was put in place, I remember an Admin stating in OOC stating the nerf was a beginning of a set of changes to "promote more subterfuge and longer rounds." I can't remember who the admin was, but context was for changes overall, not just the changeling.

W-what nerf though? We can't remember the nerfs you know.

The borg nerf from a while back was also aimed at making rounds last longer.

I think when multiple admins have stated through these forums, in deadchat and in the SA thread that they would like the rounds to last longer, pretending this isn't an attitude held is a bit disingenuous. Most of the responses seem to be aimed at attempting to deny this is even a thing, when there are mountains of evidence to the contrary. The only acknowledgement that it even exists is a post that says, in essence, it isn't worth bothering justifying because people wouldn't accept it. If this is a thing that is going to be enforced, I'd prefer that the administration is straightforward and honest about it.

Ah yes "the borg nerf". That one. That one nerf that everyone absolutely remembers. Yup.

Anyway, sure some of us like longer rounds (around 60 minutes seems to be a good number) but that's kinda it for your "mountains of evidence" as none of the changes that a few of us spitballed to actually lengthen the round were ever done. Rounds kinda just got longer on their own via player attitude changes and so on.

I find the ~conspiracy theory~ tone of this thread in the past few pages to be hilarious.

Convair880 even said in this thread that there is a push for it and things are getting nerfed to meet the change and we saw over the past year things getting nerfed I voiced my disapproval over these nerfs now I can't say if any of the nerfs that took place make rounds longer but so far only one coder has said there is indeed a push for longer round, while others have denied,denied, denied and Convair880 has yet to answer any of the questions raised by his statement and no one else will even acknowledge what he said. I'm sure you seen the post I've quoted it quite alot. It's the biggest piece of "evidence" there is. Tin foil hat or not something seems odd here.

[Noah Buttes]

When the changeling nerf was put in place, I remember an Admin stating in OOC stating the nerf was a beginning of a set of changes to "promote more subterfuge and longer rounds." I can't remember who the admin was, but context was for changes overall, not just the changeling.

W-what nerf though? We can't remember the nerfs you know.

I think the nerf being referred to is the acid spit nerf where it no longer instantly knocks people out.

[Roomba]

It's disheartening that the response has been to double down on the denial, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I don't think 'some admins would prefer if rounds were longer, and have been making changes to game mechanics to promote that' is especially difficult to acknowledge, but apparently others disagree. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not entirely opposed to game mechanics that promote longer rounds - it's a far better alternative to leaving it an unspoken but nonetheless heavily enforced rule. Nevertheless if the official response is to continue to insist that A: it doesn't exist and B: if it does, it isn't worth discussing with the playerbase, then so be it. I'm sorry, but I don't think a meaningful discussion is possible under these circumstances.

[Sex_Robot]

You're talking about it like it's some sort of watergate scandal. Jfc people.

Are some people in favor of longer round: Certainly
Are some people in favor of shorter rounds: Vocally

Now I say this with all the love in the world but considering the supposed dire state of the code, the inherent difficulty in altering and adding to it and the fact that most of the coders have very little free time to make and deploy the changes in the first place. I get the feeling that they don't really get a chance to plan for the extended effects of changes or additions made to the game. Including overarching effects to game length and metagame elements.

[Spy_Guy]

Surely the admins saying there is no grand conspiracy must mean there is one!

I asked you for examples of nerfs carried out with the explicit purpose of extending rounds. Instead of getting any of that we get a post like that and you're the one lamenting that a reasonable discussion isn't possible?

Come on, man. You're above this.

[Ed Venture]

You're talking about it like it's some sort of watergate scandal. Jfc people.

Are some people in favor of longer round: Certainly
Are some people in favor of shorter rounds: Vocally

Now I say this with all the love in the world but considering the supposed dire state of the code, the inherent difficulty in altering and adding to it and the fact that most of the coders have very little free time to make and deploy the changes in the first place. I get the feeling that they don't really get a chance to plan for the extended effects of changes or additions made to the game. Including overarching effects to game length and metagame elements.

What admin is Richard Nixon?

[BlackPhoenix]

You're talking about it like it's some sort of watergate scandal. Jfc people.

Are some people in favor of longer round: Certainly
Are some people in favor of shorter rounds: Vocally

Now I say this with all the love in the world but considering the supposed dire state of the code, the inherent difficulty in altering and adding to it and the fact that most of the coders have very little free time to make and deploy the changes in the first place. I get the feeling that they don't really get a chance to plan for the extended effects of changes or additions made to the game. Including overarching effects to game length and metagame elements.

What admin is Richard Nixon?

The mysterious unnamed admin that apparently keeps confirming that they're trying to push for longer rounds but nobody can remember who exactly they are. That's some illuminati shit.

But in all honesty, I think a lot of this is a long, extended kneejerk to being told "Hey, shitheads, don't call the shuttle just because the round has been going on for a while, that's both metagamey and can screw over more intricate traitory plans and gimmicks. There's lots of ways to entertain yourself, or you could just hop to one of our other servers and go from there."

[Haine]

Look, bottom line, the admins have been discussing this thread quite a bit recently. No one is aware of any grand plan, any nerfs or changes, specifically intended to make rounds longer, with the exception of the nuke/wizard call failures which have been around for a long time now and are in place to keep people from dicking over the antags who can't (easily) recall the thing. Those also only apply to REALLY early shuttle calls. Otherwise, no one has committed shit with any mention of making rounds longer since I've been made coder, that I can recall, and I don't remember any discussion of stuff like that in codechat. The closest thing I've got otherwise is that I've discussed with another admin how to make it easier to keep the shuttle called on lowpop when rounds are at like 6 hours. I may have been imagining that I discussed this with someone else, even, I could have just been pondering it to myself.

The most anyone has been able to think of is that some people (myself included) have grumped a bit in-game or in OOC about calling the shuttle just because the shift timer says it's been 60 minutes being kinda dumb. Since then, everyone that did said grumping (myself included) has ceased giving a shit about when the shuttle is called, outside of special cases like "a non antag is doing everything in their power to keep the shuttle from being called and admin intervention is required to get it to the station". As far as I'm concerned, call the shuttle whenever you want.

sorry if some of this is word mush but I'm kinda half awake right now

[Huff H Law]

Well and the rounds not ending automatically when wizards/nuke-ops die.

Actually: what are we even talking about at this point? Yeah, the wizard/nuke-ops rounds not ending automatically was a change that prolongs rounds, probably with that intent. No, there were no nerfs to any game-mechanics made to prolong rounds in game. No, you aren't going to get banned if you call the shuttle too soon, but as BlackPheonix said this might fuck over some projects other people had in mind.

Actually I now regret getting into this long drawn out discussion about which nerfs were for what reason instead of actually answering the question made in the first page of this thread: Yeah the shuttle call is a player decision, it's made by the players playing the game. If the players do not want to play in the round anymore then they can call the shuttle no problem. Anyone can also recall the shuttle at any point. If the players then thought it was a bad idea to call/recall the shuttle at that point they can chastise the person involved. I may be wrong about this, hell what do I know, but at this point this is certainly a better discussion topic than the last 4 pages of nothing.

[Scrumpys]

Well and the rounds not ending automatically when wizards/nuke-ops die.

Actually: what are we even talking about at this point? Yeah, the wizard/nuke-ops rounds not ending automatically was a change that prolongs rounds, probably with that intent. No, there were no nerfs to any game-mechanics made to prolong rounds in game. No, you aren't going to get banned if you call the shuttle too soon, but as BlackPheonix said this might fuck over some projects other people had in mind.

Actually I now regret getting into this long drawn out discussion about which nerfs were for what reason instead of actually answering the question made in the first page of this thread: Yeah the shuttle call is a player decision, it's made by the players playing the game. If the players do not want to play in the round anymore then they can call the shuttle no problem. Anyone can also recall the shuttle at any point. If the players then thought it was a bad idea to call/recall the shuttle at that point they can chastise the person involved. I may be wrong about this, hell what do I know, but at this point this is certainly a better discussion topic than the last 4 pages of nothing.

Look, bottom line, the admins have been discussing this thread quite a bit recently. No one is aware of any grand plan, any nerfs or changes, specifically intended to make rounds longer, with the exception of the nuke/wizard call failures which have been around for a long time now and are in place to keep people from dicking over the antags who can't (easily) recall the thing. Those also only apply to REALLY early shuttle calls. Otherwise, no one has committed shit with any mention of making rounds longer since I've been made coder, that I can recall, and I don't remember any discussion of stuff like that in codechat. The closest thing I've got otherwise is that I've discussed with another admin how to make it easier to keep the shuttle called on lowpop when rounds are at like 6 hours. I may have been imagining that I discussed this with someone else, even, I could have just been pondering it to myself.

The most anyone has been able to think of is that some people (myself included) have grumped a bit in-game or in OOC about calling the shuttle just because the shift timer says it's been 60 minutes being kinda dumb. Since then, everyone that did said grumping (myself included) has ceased giving a shit about when the shuttle is called, outside of special cases like "a non antag is doing everything in their power to keep the shuttle from being called and admin intervention is required to get it to the station". As far as I'm concerned, call the shuttle whenever you want.

sorry if some of this is word mush but I'm kinda half awake right now

Well, seems like we're all on the same page now. I just hope people stop getting yelled at for calling the shuttle whenever.

[Huff H Law]

WELL THANK FUCK FOR THAT!