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Wonkmen LLJK:4 1:30 PM EST
#16
Mofleaker Wrote:Is this a new rule you guys are trying to push? Last I checked it was A-OK to call the shuttle if the round is getting stale at the 50-60 minute mark. In fact, I've seen it done a million times with the very same justification and nobody was yelled at.

It's that time of the year when it's going from occasional to trending or common. Usually, we let one or two slip by because what the hell, but when it becomes a frequent thing someone eventually snaps and calls some poor sod out. Technically, it's always been metagaming to use it as a reason, just one of the lighter ones. You know, sort of like the bad habits back on donut when people would force the AI to do their bidding by threatening suicide around every corner.

Now, obviously, I can't speak in the name of the entire administration team, but the prevalent opinion does appear to be that we'd prefer if round were longer and people weren't looking for excuses to end it unless it's truly beyond saving. This has been especially problematic with nuke/blob, where trends of 15-minutes shuttle calls have only just been dying down recently.
#17
Marquesas Wrote:Now, obviously, I can't speak in the name of the entire administration team, but the prevalent opinion does appear to be that we'd prefer if round were longer and people weren't looking for excuses to end it unless it's truly beyond saving. This has been especially problematic with nuke/blob, where trends of 15-minutes shuttle calls have only just been dying down recently.

Right, I totally understand. I just think that you guys should communicate your newfound opinions better, otherwise stuff like this happens where genuinely good players like mentors get in shit for doing something they thought (and had good reason to think) was perfectly fine.

Maybe make a stickied thread like you did with the security crackdown or something.
#18
Mofleaker Wrote:Right, I totally understand. I just think that you guys should communicate your newfound opinions better, otherwise stuff like this happens where genuinely good players like mentors get in shit for doing something they thought (and had good reason to think) was perfectly fine.

Maybe make a stickied thread like you did with the security crackdown or something.

It's different, we're not enforcing longer rounds, we're enforcing existing rules in connotation with things we've been more lenient about before.
#19
Marquesas Wrote:we're enforcing existing rules in connotation with things we've been more lenient about before.

I get that, and I still think you should communicate it better. I've just observed a round where the shuttle was called at 50 minutes with the station in complete working order. I guarantee you the person that called the shuttle didn't think for a second they were metagaming.

It's unfair to be yelling at people for breaking some new unspoken appendage to a rule. Not even the page about metagaming on the wiki mentions anything about the shuttle, so how could these people could have known what they were doing was wrong? I certainly didn't because this has never been a problem with the administration before.
#20
Mofleaker Wrote:
Marquesas Wrote:we're enforcing existing rules in connotation with things we've been more lenient about before.

I get that, and I still think you should communicate it better. I've just observed a round where the shuttle was called at 50 minutes with the station in complete working order. I guarantee you the person that called the shuttle didn't think for a second they were metagaming.

It's unfair to be yelling at people for breaking some new unspoken appendage to a rule. Not even the page about metagaming on the wiki mentions anything about the shuttle, so how could these people could have known what they were doing was wrong? I certainly didn't because this has never been a problem with the administration before.

This is why I think this is so silly. For all the years I played here this has been the norm. Most people here don't like it when rounds go over the one hour mark. Then all of a sudden when they have a issue with it they get super angry over something that people have been doing for years. Put yourself in a ghost position if you sit in deadchat for over a hour you are going to be even more bored then the people walking around doing nothing. Sure when things are happening and it is actually interesting rounds that go over the 60 min mark are fun to have around. But the fact remains that MOST of the rounds that last a hour and thirty minutes to two hours are boring as shit. In the round in question not really much was happening besides people at telesci ranting how they wanted to kill people near the coms and then whining that they got trapped at the biodome. Sure I had other reasons to call the shuttle that round, but even if those factors did not exist there was no reason to have that round drag on.
#21
Ed Venture Wrote:This is why I think this is so silly. For all the years I played here this has been the norm. Most people here don't like it when rounds go over the one hour mark. Then all of a sudden when they have a issue with it they get super angry over something that people have been doing for years. Put yourself in a ghost position if you sit in deadchat for over a hour you are going to be even more bored then the people walking around doing nothing. Sure when things are happening and it is actually interesting rounds that go over the 60 min mark are fun to have around. But the fact remains that MOST of the rounds that last a hour and thirty minutes to two hours are boring as shit. In the round in question not really much was happening besides people at telesci ranting how they wanted to kill people near the coms and then whining that they got trapped at the biodome. Sure I had other reasons to call the shuttle that round, but even if those factors did not exist there was no reason to have that round drag on.
You don't have to sit in deadchat. We have three other servers available, or you could do something else for a while.
#22
To be fair the other servers hardly have any people on them most of the time and I listed other reasons other then "Think of the poor ghosts"
#23
Mofleaker Wrote:I've just observed a round where the shuttle was called at 50 minutes with the station in complete working order. I guarantee you the person that called the shuttle didn't think for a second they were metagaming.

This is a shame and baseless shuttle calls should probably at least get a frown. We'll probably discuss this in admin circles first.

Mofleaker Wrote:It's unfair to be yelling at people for breaking some new unspoken appendage to a rule. Not even the page about metagaming on the wiki mentions anything about the shuttle, so how could these people could have known what they were doing was wrong? I certainly didn't because this has never been a problem with the administration before.

Look, I'm not sure about you folks but /even as a player/ this never had to be explained to me. For me it was clear as day that calling the shuttle because the status tab displays a number is about as metagaming as pasting chat output directly back into say or something. In any case, I guess we'll put it up there after much deliberation.

Ed Venture Wrote:Put yourself in a ghost position if you sit in deadchat for over a hour you are going to be even more bored then the people walking around doing nothing.

I might as well open this particular can of worms. This is basically the issue. You're constantly pushing for terrifyingly lethal shit to remain terrifyingly lethal, and the round times to remain proportionately short. These things complement each other, if it's not goddamn trivial to land a kill, maybe the round becomes longer and more interesting.
#24
I don't find 50 min rounds short at all. The subject of nerfs are off topic but I'll state what I said in another thread. I am not against nerfs, I just don't like it when you nerf something to oblivion where there is almost no point in using said item and then get angry when people give you negative feedback over a nerf. In fact all I asked in regarded to nerfs were that admins discuss it with the community so people won't jump down admins throats.

But if you think 40-60 min rounds are short then I doubt we will agree on anything.
#25
I've said my peace on this. Cause it's starting to sound like I am all for calling the shuttle at the one hour mark when I am not. Just to reiterate I think it is ok to call the shuttle past the one hour mark if there is nothing happening not the other way around. I made this complaint because A admin publicly shamed me for saying something dumb/calling the shuttle (which I had good reasons for) and I felt he was too hasty to rant about it instead of getting all the fact and because he yelled at Nubcake for having a opinion over something. I'm starting to think this thread is going nowhere.
#26
I agree that I may have derailed this somewhat. I'll end that particular discussion here.
#27
Marquesas Wrote:I agree that I may have derailed this somewhat. I'll end that particular discussion here.
Also I want to clear this up. I don't disagree with all your nerfs for the most part your changes are for the better. I only have issue with a handful of nerfs and for the fact that admins sometimes don't tell us what they nerf and hide it from the changelog. That and there is no discussion with the community on big nerfs, or when you guys get upset when we try to give negative feedback on the matter. That's it I feel like the thread should be locked now, the issue with wonk was resolved and because even I am getting off subject.
#28
I have nothing more to add. Feel free to lock this.


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