drsingh - Server 2 - 2015-01-25, 11:20PM EST

[magic mountain]

No, actually if the evidence in this situation pointed toward a grudge he would be punished, same as anyone else. I and others investigated this thoroughly, at first glance it looked like time to ban OMJ but after a closer look the truth was obvious.

edit: I'm pulling the logs now to check your name for the round.

[magic mountain]

It appears Canto7's name was Daniel Scott that round.

It's a completely moot point because this was not a grudge in the first place, in my opinion.

If you want to believe this is some kind of special exemption I can't stop you.


edit: PS there's also this bit of context

SAY: Old Man Jenkins (OMJenkins) [TRAITOR] : ;so, canto
SAY: Old Man Jenkins (OMJenkins) [TRAITOR] : ;i'm tracking your ass down
SAY: Old Man Jenkins (OMJenkins) [TRAITOR] : ;and your motherfucking skull is mine
SAY: Daniel Scott (Canto7) : ;ok

So, that's how OMJ knew who Canto7 was. You chose to reveal yourself because you assumed that if he lifted a finger against you he would be banned. He was already going after Daniel Scott for being the Captain and spawning at round start.


edit 2: More context

OOC: OMJenkins : we're going to cut your brain out and then clone you
OOC: OMJenkins : so we can do the collar key ques
OOC: Canto7 : not unless you're an antag you're not
OOC: OMJenkins : makes it easier if only one person readies
OOC: OMJenkins : i'm not readying
OOC: OMJenkins : so I can't be an antag
OOC: Canto7 : then you cant cut my skull out
OOC: OMJenkins : yes I can
OOC: OMJenkins : if I'm reviving you
OOC: OMJenkins : i'm cloning you
OOC: Canto7 : if you do without being an antag, i dont think it will turn out very well
OOC: OMJenkins : it'll be fine
OOC: OMJenkins : as i'm cloning you
OOC: Houka : Canto, if you get scanned first you can be cloned
OOC: OMJenkins : exactly
OOC: Houka : I don't understand your confusion here
OOC: OMJenkins : i did it earlier before
OOC: Dr. Nipples : Yeah, we do this all the time, it's fine
OOC: Canto7 : i dont want my brain cut out, and if you do it without being an antag, you will be breaking the rules

As I said earlier, from the very start you've assumed that you decide how the rules apply. You do not.

[magic mountain]

I'll be blunt, Canto. The way I read this situation is you had a disagreement and figured the rules were on your side. You taunted OMJ that he'd better not mess with you or he'd be punished for breaking the rules, he taunted you back and eventually killed you, and you tried to get your revenge through adminhelp.

I don't like players that try to use the rules and admins as weapons to deal with in game situations. It's a much, much more toxic form of metagame than what you're accusing OMJ of doing here. This is just one silly little fight out of the thousands of silly little fights that make SS13 what it is. It's a place to get in silly fights and die horribly and laugh about it in ghost chat.

You wanted OMJ punished, you wanted me punished, when you don't get your way it's a conspiracy to give mentors special treatment... I really dislike you. Maybe consider that you're wrong and get over it? We don't have insanely strict standards of metagaming like some roleplay server.

I don't think I'm capable of being unbiased here so it's probably for the best that the situation is getting more attention.

[OMJ]

seemed like I recalled it incorrectly, my bad, but you still identified yourself
either way I was going for the captain, the only person who was straight up outed by the game who readied. it could've easily been fox mccloud, who was also playing. if fox was the captain, he would've been dead
if anyone was the captain, they would've been dead
fact of the matter is, as a changeling, I can kill whoever I want for whatever reason I want. if I truly felt ill towards you, i would've gibbed you

[magic mountain]

Also, OMJ, don't forget to leave double the cash in your next drop. The usual place, of course.

There will be... consequences... for late payment.

[popecrunch]

Adding another vote to the 'this is not actionable' pile. Antags are allowed to target whoever they want for any reason they want, that's... sort of the point of being an antag. Looking at the logs, you chose to link 'byond key canto' with 'ingame name also the captain' and that is why you specifically got killed. Sure it's annoying but hey that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[magic mountain]

Adding another vote to the 'this is not actionable' pile. Antags are allowed to target whoever they want for any reason they want, that's... sort of the point of being an antag. Looking at the logs, you chose to link 'byond key canto' with 'ingame name also the captain' and that is why you specifically got killed. Sure it's annoying but hey that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Actually he was marked for death before he linked his key with his character. The Captain announcement immediately revealed Daniel Scott's skull would work for OMJ's goal. He was already planning to hunt down everyone who spawned at round start, Canto included. Finding out the Captain was Canto was icing.

It would have been fine either way thanks to being the changeling but being Canto wasn't the only reason.

[Canto7]

So the rule that says: "Using any information gleaned from outside the round itself is forbidden." Magically doesn't apply now? If you're going to bend the rules to favour others, you should at least change them.

I'm done arguing about this. Its clear what happened. He used info from outside the round to specifically target me. That's breaking the rules. Just because someone says its not, doesn't mean it is. The punishment isn't up to me, and I don't really care about OMJ. The point is that the admin knew the rules, told me he didn't care and said he didn't mind if the rules were broken.

I've said what I needed to say. You'll never convince me that the rules weren't broken. They were. Its a fact.

[Readster]

What information from outside the round did he use exactly?

Also while you're at it can you quote the part where drsingh said he didn't care if OMJ broke the rules or not because you keep referencing it but I can't find it anywhere.

[OMJ]

So the rule that says: "Using any information gleaned from outside the round itself is forbidden." Magically doesn't apply now? If you're going to bend the rules to favour others, you should at least change them.

I'm done arguing about this. Its clear what happened. He used info from outside the round to specifically target me. That's breaking the rules. Just because someone says its not, doesn't mean it is. The punishment isn't up to me, and I don't really care about OMJ. The point is that the admin knew the rules, told me he didn't care and said he didn't mind if the rules were broken.

I've said what I needed to say. You'll never convince me that the rules weren't broken. They were. Its a fact.

hey dude let me lawyer you real quick
so i needed outside information to take you down right?
how could I have fucking known
who you were as a player
if you yourself claimed you use a random name every round? enlighten me, sir

[magic mountain]

Also while you're at it can you quote the part where drsingh said he didn't care if OMJ broke the rules or not because you keep referencing it but I can't find it anywhere.

What I said was I don't care if he breaks this specific rule in this specific situation. I still don't.

So the rule that says: "Using any information gleaned from outside the round itself is forbidden." Magically doesn't apply now? If you're going to bend the rules to favour others, you should at least change them.

The rules also say it's up to the admin's discretion. They "magically" apply when an admin says they do. That's the entire purpose of moderators, our job is to monitor the game and use the rules and our best judgement to keep bad behavior in check. I'm not seeing any bad behavior here except yours.

"The rules list is not the be-all and end-all. Admin discretion will be exercised."

Don't think of the rules as a list of things you can use to get people banned. Think of them as some general guidelines for player behavior with the common goal of letting everyone play as freely as possible and sandbox up some adventures.

[magic mountain]

hey dude let me lawyer you real quick
so i needed outside information to take you down right?
how could I have fucking known
who you were as a player
if you yourself claimed you use a random name every round? enlighten me, sir

Please don't do this. Posting details about whatever happened is one thing but this thread isn't really about that round anymore.

[BlackPhoenix]

I'm sorry if this is too peanutty, but I don't think the guy who started this complaint read deep enough in the rules to understand why you guys are saying that the rule doesn't apply in this case, and I figured this might help. Again, apologies and farte on me if this is shitty.

http://wiki.ss13.co/Rules#Different_adm ... ent_styles
^That section and the section right after it are what they're getting at, I think.

[Cogwerks]

Mentors can and do get punished when they're jerks, and if OMJ hadn't been a changeling, he'd have probably gotten a yelling at and/or a time out for that chumpery of tearing skulls out of whoever joined the game at roundstart to find some silly puzzle item.
The collar key is kinda dumb and was implemented in a way that encouraged nonsense like this, and has been changed somewhat to avoid this kind of behavior.

[Wire]

A note as to the character of Canto7: he was just banned on an alternate account for multi-keying on another alternate account.