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marquesas - LLJK 4 - 30th Dec. 2014 ~2300 UTC
#1
Admin name: marquesas
Server: LLJK 4
Date/Time: 30th Dec. 2014 ~2300 UTC

Synopsis: Short version: I think he got confused and blamed me for someone else's actions and didn't want to back down. I did nothing to do damage to anyone, and this isn't a "I pushed him into space so, TECHNICALLY, THE SPACE did the damage" argument. Someone else killed someone, I got banned.

Long version: I saw a suspicious character, security guard, messing about in the technical storage. Now, it's pretty obvious he's up to something but I'm not going to kill someone for being suspicious. I dosed him with a bunch of morphine, and about 4 units total of a bunch of other non-damaging items (NOTE: Including moonshine in small enough quantities to not do TOX but to create ethanol for 1 cycle). I left and went to another room. He created a false wall and broke in to the room I was in, I stungloved him and dragged him to the morgue chute and put him through. This might do 1-2 points of suffocation, I'm not sure how long the chute is, but it's the only way I potentially damaged anyone all round. Apparently beating and stripping people is OK punishment for trespassing, but knocking him out harmlessly is NOT OK? I don't know. While this is going on, apparently someone else is running around giving people neurotoxin, one of the medical doctors mentions over radio chat.

I've long since forgotten about him and am busy getting beaten up by a non-antag's disposal trap when marquesas messages me asking why I'm giving people "nasty chems." I say that I'm not and stated that I didn't do any damage to anyone. He insists that I'm giving people "nasty chems" and I reiterate that I didn't give anyone toxic doses of anything. Then he says "a man died because of you" and starts talking about non-safe places (apparently being right next to medbay is an unsafe place). I don't want to argue with the admins, so I just shut up instead of telling the admin how to do his job, but he demands a reply. I state that I'm not the person killing people, and perhaps he should have a chat with that person. He says something about no remorse. I guess I should have taken this opportunity to apologize for another person's actions? I dunno. I state that it's space station 13, I get killed by non-antags for dumb reasons at least 30% of the time and don't whine about it, and I'm not harming anyone. BANNED.

Anyway, it was pretty clear he was confused but then didn't want to back down. I don't think mentioning the false wall would have helped at that point, but I guess I could have tried. Someone dying because of something you did is a great reason to: bolt all the doors, never build anything, never move or touch anything, because maybe you moved that toolbox and someone else found it and beat the captain with it later, so it's YOUR FAULT.

It's pretty shitty to ban someone for being tangentially related to something he couldn't have possibly known about.
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#2
You're completely downplaying the fact that you took a person, stun gloved them, and fed them at least three kinds of knockout toxins (morphine, ketamine and moonshine), and didn't even provide me a reason at all. The way I see it is if you decide to arbitrarily knock someone out for a sizable duration, you're going to be held responsible for everything that happens to them while they're out. Thus, you've been banned for murder.

As for the no remorse bit, no, during the entire interrogation you claimed complete innocence, refused to acknowledge you did bad and spent basically the entire time giving me pointers on who or what I should be punishing for your actions.

Quote:[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): Hello, why are you forcefeeding people terribly bad pills?
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie)->Marquesas/(Luis Smith): I have not included any damaging ingredients at all.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie)->Marquesas/(Luis Smith): Whoever was giving people neurotoxin, was someone else.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): Well, stungloving people and forcefeeding them sleep toxin in dangerous places is not okay.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): Or moonshine.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): A guy died because of you.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): Are you planning on responding to that?
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie)->Marquesas/(Luis Smith): I'm a bit skeptical that it was not the guy who was poisoned by someone else, but I didn't want to argue.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie)->Marquesas/(Luis Smith): OK, what killed him? I wasn't in any dangerous areas
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): You fed him the sleep toxins + moonshine. That causes damage. Then you flush him down a delivery chute. Then someone gets to him and kills him. In my books, the whole thing never would've happened if you didn't grief him in the first place. Thus you're responsible.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): And frankly I'm completely unhappy that you're questioning everything without remorse.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie)->Marquesas/(Luis Smith): Yeah, I don't bitch when I get murdered randomly because its SS13. I'm not even HURTING people, so I'm not particularly perturbed, no.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): So basically what you're saying is "no i'm not sorry for knocking out a guy for the better part of 10 minutes and leaving him for someone to kill him'
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): In fact you're not going to acknowledge that you did bad, at all?
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie)->Marquesas/(Luis Smith): Id maybe have a talk with the guy actually killing him.
[LLJK EU 4] PM: Marquesas/(Luis Smith)->Sir Cat Balls PHD/(Noel Minnie): You know what, this isn't even your first note for doing your stunning and forcefeeding drugs shit.

This entire conversation boils down to:
- You did bad, but refuse to acknowledge it.
- "I get randomly griefed too but I don't bitch and whine so why can't I randomly grief?"
- Maybe you should be talking to someone else.

You have a history of doing this but we wouldn't be at the ban phase yet if you weren't so thick.
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#3
Well, count me in for still "questioning everything without remorse."

Code:
You fed him the sleep toxins + moonshine. That causes damage.

This is demonstrably false.

And if you are busting up the station, generally being stopped/stunned/detained/ejected without injury is the BEST case scenario, and not considered griefing.
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#4
Fantastic, I may be wrong on the moonshine causing damage.

My point still stands.
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#5
What exactly is your point?

Quote:This entire conversation boils down to:
Quote:- You did bad, but refuse to acknowledge it.
OK, which part was bad? He was breaking walls, if I had beaten him down and stripped him nobody would have said a thing as long as he lived. Or was it the other guy killing him that was bad?
Quote:- "I get randomly griefed too but I don't bitch and whine so why can't I randomly grief?"
Maybe the point was that I should beat up people committing minor crimes instead of stopping them without hurting them, because if I don't nearly kill them or beat them to crit I would be "randomly" "griefing" them?
Quote:- Maybe you should be talking to someone else.
Maybe the point was that being tangentially related to something I didn't know about puts me at fault? If so, please ban all engineers who start the engine, because without power there would be less devices to make dangerous stuff. You better ban anyone who clones someone too, because that clone could go open a door for a bad guy who kills someone!
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#6
CatBalls Wrote:OK, which part was bad? He was breaking walls, if I had beaten him down and stripped him nobody would have said a thing as long as he lived. Or was it the other guy killing him that was bad?

Beating and stripping is bad but not as bad. You downright stunned and took someone out of the game for the better part of 10 minutes for something as minor as breaking down walls. That is my point. The fact that it took an admin complaint to pull a few words of explanation or cooperation out of you instead of the stinking I'm entitled to fuck up people behaviour further doesn't help your case.

CatBalls Wrote:Maybe the point was that I should beat up people committing minor crimes instead of stopping them without hurting them, because if I don't nearly kill them or beat them to crit I would be "randomly" "griefing" them?

Perhaps the point is that you should do neither of these things and instead defer the whole deal to security or act proportionately instead of going straight to overreacting.

CatBalls Wrote:Maybe the point was that being tangentially related to something I didn't know about puts me at fault? If so, please ban all engineers who start the engine, because without power there would be less devices to make dangerous stuff. You better ban anyone who clones someone too, because that clone could go open a door for a bad guy who kills someone!

I honestly don't think this bit even warrants an answer.
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