lol stamina??

[KikiMofo]

Since when did RNG stop being fun? I mean there are entire games revolving around RNG.

This isn't those games. General Byond lag + RNG + crazy steep learning curve does not engender fun combat. You all have some crazy stockholm syndrome stuff going on if you think this idea isn't an improvement.

Eh whatever. You guys do what you want. I'll play when you got this stuff sorted out.

[Klayboxx]

Since when did RNG stop being fun? I mean there are entire games revolving around RNG.

This isn't those games. General Byond lag + RNG + crazy steep learning curve does not engender fun combat. You all have some crazy stockholm syndrome stuff going on if you think this idea isn't an improvement.

lol yeah you're right, how you think the game should be is the right way and the people who don't like it are just dumb mindwashed idiots.

Or, alternately, you shouldn't have shat out an unfinished product onto a game that worked perfectly before hand.

[UrsulaMejor]

lol yeah you're right, how you think the game should be is the right way and the people who don't like it are just dumb mindwashed idiots.

Or, alternately, you shouldn't have shat out an unfinished product onto a game that worked perfectly before hand.

You know, Keelin, Efrem, Sailordave, and I had an hour long conversation last night on IRC that addressed a lot of the concerns brought up here and the general consensus is that since the stamina bar is a WIP it has tons of modular and tweaking potential.

Some of the things we came up with as possibilities were:

1) A RNG-based critical hits system which can cause "Debhilitating Blows"

2) Sliding Scale Probabilities for stuns/winds/knockouts/etc. based on current stamina levels

3) "Offensive" (Harm) and "Defensive" (Disarm) stances (intents) to add a dynamic element of strategy to fights (Need to escape from a fight? Go Defensive and start running)

4) Ways to customize in-game using drugs, food, working out, etc. the way your stamina bar works (prioritize max stamina over regeneration? Have extremely reduced stun chances compared to other players (because your relative % on the sliding scale from 2) will be higher) at the expense of taking longer to rest up from fights) Increase metabolism and stamina regeneration at the expense of maximum values? (Attack faster at the expense of going down after only a few blows)

Basically, the stamina bar has great potential for preserving all the elements that made the previous system fun while EXPANDING IMMENSELY how fun it can be in other ways.

The stamina bar is here. And It's going to stay here. You'd benefit more from providing constructive criticisms and suggesting ways it can be improved than by begging for its removal

[UrsulaMejor]

(Sorry for Doublepost)

I'll be the first to admit I was extremely apprehensive about the idea when it was introduced, and i don't like its current form, but Keelin really sold me on it's potential, especially after he talked about the huge number of private complaints he's gotten about the old system.

[Klayboxx]

yeah lets make it so in order to not be made out of sticks you need to spend 20 minutes working out, and make injections and food, so when you finally get to a point where you won't run out of stamina immediately, the shuttle is called!

This is not a fucking RPG, I don't want to have to take time out of every round just to up some dumb arbitrary stat so I can actually play the game normally, especially when I'm an antagonist or a security officer. This isn't going to eliminate the skill ceiling, this just adds another one where people who have access to/know how to make stimulants and food are going to beat the shit out of anyone who doesn't.

The stamina bar is here, and it shouldn't stay here. It is a bad idea, and even if it were a good idea it shouldn't have been implemented until it was actually fucking finished.

And again, the only people who complained about the old system were people who got screwed due to RNG, but now people are going to complain (and already are complaining) about being completely fucked by things even further out of their control.

[Amuys]

I don't really think it's much of a problem unless you're trying to beat someone to death with a really weak melee weapon.

[UrsulaMejor]

The stamina bar is here, and it shouldn't stay here. It is a bad idea, and even if it were a good idea it shouldn't have been implemented until it was actually fucking finished.

How are you supposed to finish + balance a mechanic without testing it? Like, I don't understand how you think that it's possible to completely balance a mechanic for a 30 person group without actually putting it into a 30 person group.

Like, this IS the finishing/balancing process. This is how it's gonna get finished: with people adding constructive criticisms and allowing the system to be tweaked as we go along. That's how 95% of all the shit that gets added ends up going, i don't see how you think this is different.

[KikiMofo]

I just think this mechanic needed more cooking time. I would have rather had the things in the game that needed fixing be fixed before added another huge game changing mechanic that was only half done.

[Shoddy]

Just to add: it seems that knockouts are broken too, you can never knock someone unconscious now, they only get tuckered out and scream for help over the radio.

also I get testing new features or modes on players beforehand if they need an actual stress test, but it seems like the stamina system is a buggy mess and completely out of whack, instead of making the excuse "It was made in 1 day!"
actually work on it for longer before releasing it so people won't scream at you for adding shitty and useless features.

I'm not against new ideas, I go with whatever works, and this just doesn't and I can't see it ever working to be honest.

stamina just doesn't fit well in a social game based on round by round multiplayer and click combat with random crit chances.

This is a buggy, possibly never going to be working well, shitty feature in a good game.

[Shoddy]

How are you supposed to finish + balance a mechanic without testing it? Like, I don't understand how you think that it's possible to completely balance a mechanic for a 30 person group without actually putting it into a 30 person group.

Like, this IS the finishing/balancing process. This is how it's gonna get finished: with people adding constructive criticisms and allowing the system to be tweaked as we go along. That's how 95% of all the shit that gets added ends up going, i don't see how you think this is different.

There is a point where beta testing is appropriate for features that you think can only be improved now by testing on players.

However, this is changing one of the core elements of the entire game based on a whim, when you change one of the basis for the game, you have to at least get the clockwork turning before putting out the feature.

It should have been worked on until the coder thought "Hm, well stamina is alright right now, but it needs to be fine tuned!" instead of "well I got this bar that goes down by an arbitrary number each time you hit something but not anything else, let's release it and modify it based on the wails of enraged pubbies"

It isn't just a bad feature, it's an example of bad work ethic imo. (not saying that coding for SS13 is a full-time job)

[Haine]

This isn't those games. General Byond lag + RNG + crazy steep learning curve does not engender fun combat. You all have some crazy stockholm syndrome stuff going on if you think this idea isn't an improvement.

it's new and different and new and different things are scary to me

help

[Klayboxx]

This isn't those games. General Byond lag + RNG + crazy steep learning curve does not engender fun combat. You all have some crazy stockholm syndrome stuff going on if you think this idea isn't an improvement.

it's new and different and new and different things are scary to me

help

haha yeah thats the problem not that it is an unenjoyable mechanic replacing a perfectly fine and more fun one.

[Sundance]

Just tried a round there, and to be honest, I am not a fan of it as it stands. I honestly have nothing to add other than what as already been said.
Some of the stuff unrelated to it is fun, the defense mechanic from disarming is really cool for example.

But ugh.
It'd be nice to perhaps instead of coding some random new shit that nobody suggested and was put in on a whim that maybe, maybe, coders might act actually look at the abyss that is the suggestion forum, and actually try their hand at coding one of the highly supported (and there's alot) 683 ideas

[Haine]

haha yeah thats the problem not that it is an unenjoyable mechanic replacing a perfectly fine and more fun one.

I'm drunk and only kinda paying attention to the topic so sorry if that seemed like more than a hit-and-run fart of a joke, it was not

[Lison]

And on the pedestal, these words appear: "my name is klayboxx! king of shitposters! Look upon my posts, ye mighty, and despair!". Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal shitpost, boundless and bare, The lone and level space stretch far away.