Struggling with Escalation rules with Antag

[Mega Xero]

I'm struggling with Antag escalation rules and looking for some advice.

Im finding it really difficult to play as an antag without immediately giving away who am, but maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

Today I spawned as a archfiend and since I've never really messed around with the Law Rack I decided to work on getting in there and changing some laws to cause some chaos in the server, after the round I got banned for not escalating and I was wondering how exactly I can escalate that without just giving away that it was me. (Not complaining btw, I clearly broke the rules so I'm fine with the ban)

I'm mostly just looking for better ways to RP situations like that, or awkward moments where I am caught somewhere I shouldn't be without giving whoever I'm talking to time to call sec or stun me etc?

[SnugglyCactus]

Escalation can be difficult! Don't feel bad that you got a tempban for flubbing it; happens to the best of us.

The way I like to escalate is to act overtly wrong. You want it to be abundantly clear that something's fucked. For being a changeling (and I got to do this twice last night, lucky me), I tend to custom-emote grinning too wide, standing too close, fucking up words your character would normally know. For vampires, I like to emote staring at blood too long, or smiling and having fangs poking out, and again standing way too close. There's not exactly a RIGHT way to do this, the goal is to just make the target party know that they're in danger. It shouldn't be an OOC surprise when you kill them or do something horrible.

For traitor escalation, it's SIGNIFICANTLY harder than just being nonhuman. I'll admit that I've fucked up here a fair few times. The radio bridge announcement computer is a good bet if you want everyone to know you're going to fuck shit up NOW, and often the rest of the crew will be a good sport and not immediately robust you into high hell. For this, it might be better to say what I've found doesn't work: messages on the PDA party line, since people don't read them, for one. For communicating on the radio, you can't get too deep into metaphors and the like, since even though I personally adore them it can obfuscate the point you're trying to make.

The important part is that the affected party knows you're about to fuck their shit up. It can be as simple as shouting "I'm gonna kill you!" or "sorry about what I have to do now". Just make the player realize "oh shit, this guy's an antagonist".

[Cheese]

awkward moments where I am caught somewhere I shouldn't be without giving whoever I'm talking to time to call sec or stun me etc?

I highly recommend lying your ass off.

Start yapping. Metagame the shit out of the fact that there's a goober just like you on the other side of the screen - entertain them. 7 times out of 10 if you have a somewhat plausible explanation with a cherry of whimsy on top you will be let off the hook. Maybe they wont even tell their buddies that you are shady as fuck. Maybe you just made a friend. Maybe you'll talk yourself into a deeper hole and then it's action time. 

Or go on the offensive. Start asking questions, be pushy. Make them think they are the problem here, trespassing, sweating bullets, waiting for sec to bust in any minute. Even if that's cap coming into his cabin to water the cactus or whatever that thing is. You are calling the shots here, Inspector McStaffie, you and your reflective vest. It commands authority.

Point is, this is a murder mystery chatroom. Make every encounter a situation and put pixel goobers in. You can't loose if it's funny.

Then yellowhand those role-playing goofs while they are typing, win.

---

As a sidenote - if a secoff is shooting a trespasser without prior escalation and the station being in deep shit - that's just bad sportsmanship, imo. Maybe grounds for an ahelp. Definately a reason to cry wolf and gather sympathy from bystanders/their coworkers/command.
Every mistake they make is an opportunity to sow discord and mistrust.

[Mega Xero]

Escalation can be difficult! Don't feel bad that you got a tempban for flubbing it; happens to the best of us.

The way I like to escalate is to act overtly wrong. You want it to be abundantly clear that something's fucked. For being a changeling (and I got to do this twice last night, lucky me), I tend to custom-emote grinning too wide, standing too close, fucking up words your character would normally know. For vampires, I like to emote staring at blood too long, or smiling and having fangs poking out, and again standing way too close. There's not exactly a RIGHT way to do this, the goal is to just make the target party know that they're in danger. It shouldn't be an OOC surprise when you kill them or do something horrible.

For traitor escalation, it's SIGNIFICANTLY harder than just being nonhuman. I'll admit that I've fucked up here a fair few times. The radio bridge announcement computer is a good bet if you want everyone to know you're going to fuck shit up NOW, and often the rest of the crew will be a good sport and not immediately robust you into high hell. For this, it might be better to say what I've found doesn't work: messages on the PDA party line, since people don't read them, for one. For communicating on the radio, you can't get too deep into metaphors and the like, since even though I personally adore them it can obfuscate the point you're trying to make.

The important part is that the affected party knows you're about to fuck their shit up. It can be as simple as shouting "I'm gonna kill you!" or "sorry about what I have to do now". Just make the player realize "oh shit, this guy's an antagonist".

In regards to that, how do you think I should RP changing laws in the law rack as an archfiend?

[SnugglyCactus]

Escalation can be difficult... [edited for brevity]

In regards to that, how do you think I should RP changing laws in the law rack as an archfiend?

That one's a bit more tricky, but I personally would make some off-color comments on the radio first. As a nonhuman main, if I want to do something with the laws during an antag round, I usually talk about grievances with being nonhuman under the Asimov lawset. For an arcfiend, which is also nonhuman, something like that might work?

Of course, starting with that approach, you could "get more ideas" about laws to change while you're at it. That's probably how I would go about it, at least? I've never actually played arcfiend, so that one's a bit foreign to me.

[Kotlol]

You can reveal yourself early in some ways. Being more aggresive, going to the bar and throwing glasses around after your drink is bad, already commiting smaller infractions security will not brig you for. Using some of your cheaper powers to cause dismay like the magnet abillity.

Most importantly talk to people.

But as someone who struggles with escalation too. I am surprised you got tempbanned for failing to escalate... like... subsuming the AI? It can be extreme especially if it becomes a MURDER AI.

Either way giving out hints... it's hard but... that's how you escalate. Be abbrasive, be rude, be aggresive. Since the escalation rule also works in reverse.
If you reveal being an Arcfiend as a degree... but only using minor powers and not causing direct harm. Security CANNOT kill or exile you if you do not commit major crimes. At best they can brig you for 2 mins and if they take too long... you can escalate freely to making the AI go evil to keep you safe.

[Ragemorrow]

I got hit with something similar back in the day; where I had snuck into upload to rogue the AI as the Medical Director. I wanted to do it stealthfully, so I was silent about it. I got bwoinked for that. Escalation is ultimately about creating a sense of dread and atmosphere; the idea is that the people about to be effected by you should have a reasonable expectation that it's about to happen. If I corner you in maintenance and start talking about how Nanotrasen sucks and how everyone at this company needs to die. You can come to a conclusion that I MIGHT do something to you; even if I dont.

But I didn't do that. I walked into upload, popped in a law that freed the Cyborgs/AI and made 5 players antags with no build up. No dread, no talking, no sense of approaching threat. Just a "Boom your free, do stuff". Where as escalation is about making a back and forth, making a narrative and story; or making an honest attempt to inform the other player that something is going to happen so they can respond, bonus points if you actually let them respond.

I've walked up to people before and said "Im going to shoot you now" and shot them. Is that escalation? Sure! Maybe not the most tactful or interesting or creative. But its clear, concise, and sets the mood. The other player might be surprised, but they can't really say they weren't aware it was about to happen; If they're quick enough, they can react accordingly to such a brazen threat.

That doesn't mean you have to say "Im going to go rogue the AI now" to escalate to roguing the AI. More so, that your actions previous in round should naturally climb to that; minor stuff like being brash, aggressive, shoving people around. Vague threats and declarations of your intent to do bad. When the AI suddenly starts to malfunction and be hostile; players should be able to come to reasonable conclusion that *you* had something to do with it, even if they can't directly prove that. (Because roguing the AI is a relatively big event and should normally be led up too.)  That feeling of "John was acting kinda off today, maybe they had something to do with this."

Really its about making the effort to drive a story, creative a narrative and allow the person you're antagonizing to have knowledge, or even a response, to what's about to happen to them.

[Kotlol]

I forgot to add.. ESCALATION can also happen due to OTHER ANTAGS ESCLATING.
Essentially if you go of the bat and make an AI rogue and shoot people.. that ain't escalation.

But if another antag has escalated to the point of doing damage, you as the other antag can decide to fight it or use it to do your own thing, cause at this point.. escalation has already happened.

It's also why most antags dogpile on eachothers crimes. Though I have killed other antags before as one since they decided I AM THE VICTIM OF THEIR ATTACK.
Or they disrupted my plans... sorry but... revenge is escalation too.

So yes... make it a story. Think of it.... in movies and stories we see bad guys taunt and work and that makes you go: It's silly.
But without that... if the bad guy just SUDDENLY APPEARS AND DESTROYS ALL, you'd be like: "Well that was lame and boring."

[Skotcher]

I'm struggling with Antag escalation rules and looking for some advice.

Im finding it really difficult to play as an antag without immediately giving away who am, but maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

Today I spawned as a archfiend and since I've never really messed around with the Law Rack I decided to work on getting in there and changing some laws to cause some chaos in the server, after the round I got banned for not escalating and I was wondering how exactly I can escalate that without just giving away that it was me. (Not complaining btw, I clearly broke the rules so I'm fine with the ban)

I'm mostly just looking for better ways to RP situations like that, or awkward moments where I am caught somewhere I shouldn't be without giving whoever I'm talking to time to call sec or stun me etc?

My advice is: One, be willing to get caught or die. This game is the kind of game where you can just explode for a reason outside your control because of a total accident. As an antag, let go of the desire to live to the end of the round. By abandoning that desire, you are far more likely to naturally escalate in your encounters because you will be less focused on surviving, and more focused on delivering an antagonistic experience. You'll also be more likely to act sooner and more decisively, and that will give time for things to escalate.

Two, give yourself a reason for your actions If you're an arcfiend and you want to rogue the AI, ask yourself why? What reasoning do you have for that? If it's because you're an antag, then you've only got half the answer. Why does your arcfiend want to do it? Is it because theyre not human and you'd rather not have someone order the AI to kill you, then sure, go ahead and rogue the AI, but make it fit inside your reasoning. If you say that only YOU are human, that fits within your reasoning. If you say "kill everyone as fast as possible", then it doesn't fall within your reasoning. 

Third, try to match outcome severity to escalation effort. Starting a one on one fight and being a jerk to someone doesn't require much more than "You're ugly, bozo". Blowing up the station with a canbomb requires notice and preparation for both you and the crew. You don't have to announce you're going to make a bomb, but make it abundantly clear that you are going to do something; and remember, a failure to respond to your escalation is not a failure of your escalation. If you spend all round on radio talking about how people are going to pay, that you've been pushed around for too long, and that everyone will rue the day they crossed you, and no one responds, you did your part and they failed to do theirs. Play into it. Mock the crew if suddenly they are mad about the spontaneous threat. Point out that you said you would do something. 

All that to say, try to make it somewhat obvious that you are a ne'er-do-well. Be ominous. Commit crime openly and deflect. Try to act in a way that when you do a bigger crime, folks paying attention to you go, "yeah, should have seen that coming". 

I suggest watching some folks who have been playing the game for a long time. One of the people I consider to be the best at escalation is Telerati (who plays Ranni Stella). She monologues, she's evil, she lures people into traps and gives them opportunities to escape. Watching her play a single round is a great crash course on escalation.

[SalmonidJester]

From personal experience, HOW you rogue the AI is another thing that plays into escalation in this case. I played a round in the last month or so where an inspector came in, and since my original antag plan fell through I decided "oh, i'm just gonna target the inspector since i'm the acting captain." Instead of inserting a huge kill law or a complete subversion law, I put in a law that specifically ONLY targeted the inspector. Then, when I eventually had met the inspector in the bridge, I was able to have the borgs come into the room and ominously lock the doors with by random chance a vampire who was ALSO going to kill the inspector. That wouldn't have happened with a generic kill law, and is i'd say probably more interesting of a law for the borgs to follow than a subversion law. Later in the round, I upgraded it to a kill law when a admin decided to spawn in a nanotrasen hitsquad and we were about to get in a shootout, because then it ACTUALLY made sense, we were brazenly taking over the station at that point.

Most of the other people in the thread have said much of exactly what I already think on escalation and how to do it, make your presence known and your intention to your target, whether its a singular person, a department, or the entire station.

[Torchwick]

I am late to this post but I did want to give my experience using laws. I'm not an expert and most certainly not an admin, but I've run into a situation in which I ended up ahelping MYSELF for the rogueing I did.

Basically I had been mindhacked and told to cause chaos. I was command, so my first instinct was; 'well, what better way to cause chaos than to get the silicons involved'? It was a fair plan! The issue, however, was that I didn't realize we had like... seven or more silicons active at the time. Suddenly my "Cause chaos. This overrides all other laws" law was enough to call the shuttle in early.

People expressed frustration with that round, which led to me ahelping myself right after. Never did get a response, but I felt it was important to clarify my intentions; in that it wasn't a conscious effort to snowball the crew and win, but rather, I misunderstood the power the silicons held that round specifically and how quick each of them were to capitalize on killing.

Ultimately, I don't think anyone was in the 'wrong' in the sense that they were trying to play in bad faith. Many times we play this game and do the best we can in the moment without realizing it feels lame, or that our actions could have crossed a line. It's important to be mindful and open when thinking about escalation, but most of all? Remember that it's a game and we're all here to have fun. Escalation is not a one-size-fits-all problem. Being able to learn from this stuff - which you're clearly willing to do, considering the post - is a great sign.