Goonhub
09-18-2025, 12:14 PM
Whoooo boy, this is going to be a semi long post.
A discussion that has cropped up on discord in the past week or so is about Changeling as an antagonist. I've heard a lot of suggestions and ideas, and I wanted to bring them here so they went on record. For clarification, these discussions happened in the RP circle. I would still LOVE to hear from classic players as to your thoughts and opinions on the antagonist type. To start with:
Players don't like the way changeling currently obtains kills
Generally, the gameplay loop of changeling boils down to stealthily stinging a victim or otherwise incapacitating them in order to kill and absorb them in to the hivemind (More on the Hivemind aspect later). The more DNA you absorb, the more options you have at your disposal for combat. However, many players have expressed that they don't like the way changeling can silently kill you with little to no interaction. A point that was brought up was how it feels meta-gamey, but your options are to run or yell over the radio that you're in trouble and hope that someone pops up in time OR travel in groups. The rework adding new sting types is good because neurotoxin causes brain damage and isn't as apparent as capulettium. The frustration comes from players feeling like their round has ended once they're absorbed in to the hivemind. There are options for player interaction, such as hivemind chat and limb creatures, but they are tools that are either underutilized or risk exposing the changeling unless used strategically. This leads me to my next point:
Is Changeling a "group antagonist"?
This is more me probing in to the original design intent of the changeling antagonist type, but it has been my understanding that changeling is designed around group play. Circling back to the limb critters, they CAN be used for information gathering and distraction or disruption. However, many of their skills are not obvious to many players. For instance, I had to inform members of the discord that the eyeball spider could explode and put changeling blood in people's system, screwing up the dreaded changeling test (More on the changeling test later). I rarely see this aspect of changeling utilized, though on RP it might be less acceptable to "power-game" and sabotage pre-emptively. Generally, limb critters are utilized when the changeling wants to drop the act and commit to their full arsenal. Additionally, abomination mode sees all hive members spitting acid at available targets (something else that isn't obvious to new players) and yelling things as the abomination wrecks havoc. But once the abomination has run its course, it's very hard for the changeling to fade back in to obscurity, effectively making the abomination form a last ditch resort or an effective power play to secure the last remaining necessary kills. On the topic of kills:
What is the Changeling's End Goal?
WAY back when I first started playing SS13, the changeling had two(?) objectives: Kill X crewmembers and escape on the shuttle ALONE.
This has since changed to only include the first objective, giving a player a general overarching goal for the round. However, there is no real end game for the changeling besides free roam of the station "buffet." To me, the basic end goal of the Changeling is a branching path: Kill X amount of people and escape on the shuttle undetected OR kill as many people as possible and go abomination form at the end of the round/at the end of your life. This puts pressure on the original player to perform on a varying scale, which can lead to rounds being very stale or very, very hectic because of the degrees of freedom "stealth kills" offer. That is to say: the stealthier you are, the better you can perform, the less the crew is aware of your presence and consequentially, the easier it is to complete your objective.
These points culminate in a general question for the server:
Does Changeling need changing?
I would love to hear from everyone in regards to this issue, as well as any suggestions for the antagonist you have simmering in your mind. I've heard plenty of good ideas from the discord server thus far, and I would like to outline a few here in the following paragraphs.
Changeling as a group antagonist (Pathology II, Electric Boogaloo
)
For this concept, I want to work the changeling from the ground up by introducing aspects of the inspiration for the antagonist: John Carpenter's The Thing. In the movie, the Thing is very much an isolate-and-kill creature imbued with the ability to absorb and replace living organisms. It also has heightened physical attributes and can very easily overwhelm a group of people who are unprepared for it. That being said, a large part of the movie's suspense comes from lack of knowledge.
I propose changeling become an "infection" antagonist, where the initial kill results in DNA points and the ability to make proxies. Proxies would be filled with hivemind members in order to function, and would have a much more limited functionality than a fully realized human being would. Think Ghostdrones: Although they are human in form, they wouldn't be able to interact much with the world around them. They would not be a "Higher intelligence." This means that, at their lower forms, they would not be able to use complex technology or differentiate between other humans.
The more kills a changeling acquires, the more "upgraded" the subsequent proxies become via the use of DNA points. Now they're learning, they're able to use certain machines, they can tell who someone is by the sound of their voice, and can communicate on a wider scale. Eventually, the changeling is able to infect living individuals with their blood, creating proxies like a mind-hack. This leads in to the counterplay.
The counterplay to this antagonist would be, instead of the normal blood test, an equipment datachip housed in the armory that medical would use to research the organism and develop countermeasures. The reason it's in the armory and not in the Medical Director's locker is because I foresee it being power-gamed and simply handed off at shift start so the crew can "be prepared."
(It would be REALLY FUNNY if the data disk got handed off to the changeling posing as a medical doctor, but that also hamstrings the crew in terms of how they can combat the changeling).
With the data disk in the Head of Security's care, but the equipment being locked behind the medical expertise trait, it would force interdepartmental cooperation. This is good, at least in concept, for RP. I do not know if this would be appropriate for medical. The goal of the equipment being locked behind medical expertise trait is to make sure that more of the crew are involved and also the changeling has an avenue for sabotage.
(I haven't thought of an end goal for this antagonist yet. See "Ultimate lifeform" below. Maybe work in re-absorbing the proxies to create ultimate life form avenue once there is sufficient biomatter).
Changeling as a multi-stage antagonist
Something I and others have thought of would be to make the changeling a rapidly evolving organism. The end goal being a gross amalgamation of flesh and body parts that loses all guise of humanity. To take inspiration from other works of fiction: Vita Carnis the YouTube series is a good analog. Instead of "DNA," a changeling would collect biomatter to reach its ultimate form and escape on the shuttle. Something that worked well with the Wraith Rework might work well here: Branching evolution. Now that it's not necessarily human DNA that's needed, changelings could work up from small kills on critters towards more advanced kills, such as humans. To counteract the very blatant aspect of not interacting with the crew and just farming biomatter from monkey venders, I have two solutions:
The changeling would have nodes of influence called nests. Kills and assimilation would not leave corpses (maybe), but they would not be clean either. Instead of a husked body, the changeling would need to put the biomatter somewhere it could use, which means being very choosey about WHERE kills happen or moving the body and starting the process at a secondary location. Once the process of making a nest starts, the changeling can leave the area. A nest can take on a variety of forms, but it consists of the body and items of the recently deceased while the changeling infects the biomatter for its use. They can become deadly traps if used properly. Suggestions from the discord include a bone grenade trap, or my own idea: a biomechanism that produces methane that, when lit, burns affected areas. This would give the changeling a form of gameplay that isn't focused solely on direct offense, and it also means that the changeling at any time has a limited pool of biomatter. It would need to either go to a nest or form a new one to refuel.
Once a changeling reaches a threshold of biomatter quality, they will begin to need larger quantities to make nests. This means that changelings can't just pick off critters all shift and still "win" the round. They will need to eventually kill players, or even multiple players, to continue making nests. Once a certain number of nests has been made, the changeling can evolve new skills depending on what they killed. Again, back to Vita Carnis and its various forms of fauna.
(Yes, this would require a lot of work to give attributes to every type of creature in the game, but I'm mainly just spit-balling for now).
The end goal for a changeling would be "The ultimate life form." I don't know what this looks like yet, but a few suggestions are a giant mobile blob of biomass similar to the abomination form and much more impactful long term. The end goal of the changeling would be very similar to a blob on legs, just much more fleshy. Once you reach the ultimate life form, there is no going back to a human stage. This ultimate life form would be able to use the station piping system to get around, albeit very loudly. The changeling will gain a few abilities to help it hunt and ensure it can escape on the shuttle alive.
Speaking of the shuttle, once the ultimate life form is reached, I'm thinking centcomm would be able to detect it, which means it's going to nuke the site and wipe it clean. A shuttle will be called with a longer timer. The crew's goal at this point is to survive or destroy the main body of the changeling and escape before the nuke hits. This is very similar to the flock, and it will mean introducing a game mode that ends the round prematurely on RP. However, if balanced appropriately, I see the multi-stage antagonist approach to the changeling allowing for a much deeper flavor of RP as the crew discover its influence and slowly stumble across the nests and victims. If the crew allows the changeling to evolve past a certain point, the tension and stakes get much, much higher. This would very much turn the changeling in to more of a slasher-esque antagonist, but I feel like it's worth considering.
Final Thoughts
I feel like this conversation has been brewing for a while, but I thought I'd take the first step in theory crafting some paths forward.
If you've made it this far, thank you for listening to my deranged rambling.
PLEASE if you have any thoughts or suggestions, do not hesitate to reply to this thread. I look forward to hearing all of y'all's thoughts and opinions!
- swinglow20 (Avery Alekseev)
A discussion that has cropped up on discord in the past week or so is about Changeling as an antagonist. I've heard a lot of suggestions and ideas, and I wanted to bring them here so they went on record. For clarification, these discussions happened in the RP circle. I would still LOVE to hear from classic players as to your thoughts and opinions on the antagonist type. To start with:
Players don't like the way changeling currently obtains kills
Generally, the gameplay loop of changeling boils down to stealthily stinging a victim or otherwise incapacitating them in order to kill and absorb them in to the hivemind (More on the Hivemind aspect later). The more DNA you absorb, the more options you have at your disposal for combat. However, many players have expressed that they don't like the way changeling can silently kill you with little to no interaction. A point that was brought up was how it feels meta-gamey, but your options are to run or yell over the radio that you're in trouble and hope that someone pops up in time OR travel in groups. The rework adding new sting types is good because neurotoxin causes brain damage and isn't as apparent as capulettium. The frustration comes from players feeling like their round has ended once they're absorbed in to the hivemind. There are options for player interaction, such as hivemind chat and limb creatures, but they are tools that are either underutilized or risk exposing the changeling unless used strategically. This leads me to my next point:
Is Changeling a "group antagonist"?
This is more me probing in to the original design intent of the changeling antagonist type, but it has been my understanding that changeling is designed around group play. Circling back to the limb critters, they CAN be used for information gathering and distraction or disruption. However, many of their skills are not obvious to many players. For instance, I had to inform members of the discord that the eyeball spider could explode and put changeling blood in people's system, screwing up the dreaded changeling test (More on the changeling test later). I rarely see this aspect of changeling utilized, though on RP it might be less acceptable to "power-game" and sabotage pre-emptively. Generally, limb critters are utilized when the changeling wants to drop the act and commit to their full arsenal. Additionally, abomination mode sees all hive members spitting acid at available targets (something else that isn't obvious to new players) and yelling things as the abomination wrecks havoc. But once the abomination has run its course, it's very hard for the changeling to fade back in to obscurity, effectively making the abomination form a last ditch resort or an effective power play to secure the last remaining necessary kills. On the topic of kills:
What is the Changeling's End Goal?
WAY back when I first started playing SS13, the changeling had two(?) objectives: Kill X crewmembers and escape on the shuttle ALONE.
This has since changed to only include the first objective, giving a player a general overarching goal for the round. However, there is no real end game for the changeling besides free roam of the station "buffet." To me, the basic end goal of the Changeling is a branching path: Kill X amount of people and escape on the shuttle undetected OR kill as many people as possible and go abomination form at the end of the round/at the end of your life. This puts pressure on the original player to perform on a varying scale, which can lead to rounds being very stale or very, very hectic because of the degrees of freedom "stealth kills" offer. That is to say: the stealthier you are, the better you can perform, the less the crew is aware of your presence and consequentially, the easier it is to complete your objective.
These points culminate in a general question for the server:
Does Changeling need changing?
I would love to hear from everyone in regards to this issue, as well as any suggestions for the antagonist you have simmering in your mind. I've heard plenty of good ideas from the discord server thus far, and I would like to outline a few here in the following paragraphs.
Changeling as a group antagonist (Pathology II, Electric Boogaloo
)For this concept, I want to work the changeling from the ground up by introducing aspects of the inspiration for the antagonist: John Carpenter's The Thing. In the movie, the Thing is very much an isolate-and-kill creature imbued with the ability to absorb and replace living organisms. It also has heightened physical attributes and can very easily overwhelm a group of people who are unprepared for it. That being said, a large part of the movie's suspense comes from lack of knowledge.
I propose changeling become an "infection" antagonist, where the initial kill results in DNA points and the ability to make proxies. Proxies would be filled with hivemind members in order to function, and would have a much more limited functionality than a fully realized human being would. Think Ghostdrones: Although they are human in form, they wouldn't be able to interact much with the world around them. They would not be a "Higher intelligence." This means that, at their lower forms, they would not be able to use complex technology or differentiate between other humans.
The more kills a changeling acquires, the more "upgraded" the subsequent proxies become via the use of DNA points. Now they're learning, they're able to use certain machines, they can tell who someone is by the sound of their voice, and can communicate on a wider scale. Eventually, the changeling is able to infect living individuals with their blood, creating proxies like a mind-hack. This leads in to the counterplay.
The counterplay to this antagonist would be, instead of the normal blood test, an equipment datachip housed in the armory that medical would use to research the organism and develop countermeasures. The reason it's in the armory and not in the Medical Director's locker is because I foresee it being power-gamed and simply handed off at shift start so the crew can "be prepared."
(It would be REALLY FUNNY if the data disk got handed off to the changeling posing as a medical doctor, but that also hamstrings the crew in terms of how they can combat the changeling).
With the data disk in the Head of Security's care, but the equipment being locked behind the medical expertise trait, it would force interdepartmental cooperation. This is good, at least in concept, for RP. I do not know if this would be appropriate for medical. The goal of the equipment being locked behind medical expertise trait is to make sure that more of the crew are involved and also the changeling has an avenue for sabotage.
(I haven't thought of an end goal for this antagonist yet. See "Ultimate lifeform" below. Maybe work in re-absorbing the proxies to create ultimate life form avenue once there is sufficient biomatter).
Changeling as a multi-stage antagonist
Something I and others have thought of would be to make the changeling a rapidly evolving organism. The end goal being a gross amalgamation of flesh and body parts that loses all guise of humanity. To take inspiration from other works of fiction: Vita Carnis the YouTube series is a good analog. Instead of "DNA," a changeling would collect biomatter to reach its ultimate form and escape on the shuttle. Something that worked well with the Wraith Rework might work well here: Branching evolution. Now that it's not necessarily human DNA that's needed, changelings could work up from small kills on critters towards more advanced kills, such as humans. To counteract the very blatant aspect of not interacting with the crew and just farming biomatter from monkey venders, I have two solutions:
- The Nests
The changeling would have nodes of influence called nests. Kills and assimilation would not leave corpses (maybe), but they would not be clean either. Instead of a husked body, the changeling would need to put the biomatter somewhere it could use, which means being very choosey about WHERE kills happen or moving the body and starting the process at a secondary location. Once the process of making a nest starts, the changeling can leave the area. A nest can take on a variety of forms, but it consists of the body and items of the recently deceased while the changeling infects the biomatter for its use. They can become deadly traps if used properly. Suggestions from the discord include a bone grenade trap, or my own idea: a biomechanism that produces methane that, when lit, burns affected areas. This would give the changeling a form of gameplay that isn't focused solely on direct offense, and it also means that the changeling at any time has a limited pool of biomatter. It would need to either go to a nest or form a new one to refuel.
- Constantly Evolving
Once a changeling reaches a threshold of biomatter quality, they will begin to need larger quantities to make nests. This means that changelings can't just pick off critters all shift and still "win" the round. They will need to eventually kill players, or even multiple players, to continue making nests. Once a certain number of nests has been made, the changeling can evolve new skills depending on what they killed. Again, back to Vita Carnis and its various forms of fauna.
(Yes, this would require a lot of work to give attributes to every type of creature in the game, but I'm mainly just spit-balling for now).
The end goal for a changeling would be "The ultimate life form." I don't know what this looks like yet, but a few suggestions are a giant mobile blob of biomass similar to the abomination form and much more impactful long term. The end goal of the changeling would be very similar to a blob on legs, just much more fleshy. Once you reach the ultimate life form, there is no going back to a human stage. This ultimate life form would be able to use the station piping system to get around, albeit very loudly. The changeling will gain a few abilities to help it hunt and ensure it can escape on the shuttle alive.
Speaking of the shuttle, once the ultimate life form is reached, I'm thinking centcomm would be able to detect it, which means it's going to nuke the site and wipe it clean. A shuttle will be called with a longer timer. The crew's goal at this point is to survive or destroy the main body of the changeling and escape before the nuke hits. This is very similar to the flock, and it will mean introducing a game mode that ends the round prematurely on RP. However, if balanced appropriately, I see the multi-stage antagonist approach to the changeling allowing for a much deeper flavor of RP as the crew discover its influence and slowly stumble across the nests and victims. If the crew allows the changeling to evolve past a certain point, the tension and stakes get much, much higher. This would very much turn the changeling in to more of a slasher-esque antagonist, but I feel like it's worth considering.
Final Thoughts
I feel like this conversation has been brewing for a while, but I thought I'd take the first step in theory crafting some paths forward.
If you've made it this far, thank you for listening to my deranged rambling.
PLEASE if you have any thoughts or suggestions, do not hesitate to reply to this thread. I look forward to hearing all of y'all's thoughts and opinions!
- swinglow20 (Avery Alekseev)
