I don't really feel like there's enough non-antag security involvement in the game

[JohnnyJohn]

At least from my experience, security is basically just the "stop antag of the round" department when staff assistants can't be arsed to beat someone to death with fire extinguishers. I really think it would be more entertaining if there was more of a grey area of crimes, stuff that isn't particularly griefing but still stuff that's in space law, and can have the sec department descend upon you with stun batons over. Like, what if littering in the hallways was illegal, so secoffs could give you shit for that? Or what if purchasing firearms from cargo without a carry permit (unless it's an active emergency like blob or nukies) could get you brigged for a few minutes, regardless of why you purchased them? Stuff like that. Or maybe just the goofy shit like cannabis being illegal, so security might storm botany over it in a SWAT-style raid. Heck, what about partial nudity? Maybe running around without any clothes on could land you a hot minute in the slammer?

Either way, I think security just needs more interactions with non-antag crew.

[Kotlol]

At least from my experience, security is basically just the "stop antag of the round" department when staff assistants can't be arsed to beat someone to death with fire extinguishers. I really think it would be more entertaining if there was more of a grey area of crimes, stuff that isn't particularly griefing but still stuff that's in space law, and can have the sec department descend upon you with stun batons over. Like, what if littering in the hallways was illegal, so secoffs could give you shit for that? Or what if purchasing firearms from cargo without a carry permit (unless it's an active emergency like blob or nukies) could get you brigged for a few minutes, regardless of why you purchased them? Stuff like that. Or maybe just the goofy shit like cannabis being illegal, so security might storm botany over it in a SWAT-style raid. Heck, what about partial nudity? Maybe running around without any clothes on could land you a hot minute in the slammer?

Either way, I think security just needs more interactions with non-antag crew.

At 1st it sounded like miscreants but when I think about it... yea you are asking for more stupid leaders.
And guess what, roll captain in RP and enforce some stupid mandates that security will abide to.

I many times have banned narcotics and have sec follow it to the letter, with some officers stiffling it and others doing it.
Heck one time Botany and Sec and Me did the ban with botany going against it and security and me planning a raid against them. (We informed botany OOCly and they said it sounded like fun).
For only antag mcantag face using our planning to... subsume the AI and make it go rogue... so we never got to do the drug raid.

The problem with miscreant or rough leaders is that antags are way more allowed to take it TOO FAR.
I like doing this stuff as captains as it allows antags to easily go with: "Well I'll just cook super meth and get people addicted and start a protest against the captain while I try to take over the station."
That said... I also had a run with an antag trying to frame me as a captain as a corrupt offical and wanted to do an election. And I was like: "This seems like a fun thing to do! Let's do it!"
We had 4 candiates: The AI, me, The antag and the HoP. 
And we campaigned most of the round, well cept me and the AI since I was putting out fires made by the other antags who were working with the candidate antagonist, making me more imcomptent or too busy to get voters sway. The AI did a lil but.. you know... AI's get a lot of flack.

In the end the antognist won, I surrendered my seat and then they changed it into a syndicate station and now me and security started planning to raid the bridge and take it back by force. They did had free dental plans though.

Eitherway I recommend more captains that just are more involved with the station or set goals for the station so antags and crew have ways to go.
Just... don't become a Pizza factory... I crashed a server doing that.

[Mouse]

If nothing else is happening security often will descend on you for minor things.  I have fond memories of being part of a full security team that raided botany over their illegal marijuana growing operation.  We decided to dispose of the contraband by burning but hotboxing hadn't been added to the game yet.  Things just tend to get kind of hectic so it'd be inappropriate to focus on little things when there are mass murderers running through the halls.

That said if security isn't getting on your ass for ordering guns from cargo outside of an emergency they probably don't know or are new.

[Lefinch]

Here's my take, it's lukewarmish but I put it in the microwave for a bit: there's better tools available to facilitate this on both sides right now than bringing miscreants back, which actually from various anecdotes seemed to have a big problem with people not quite getting the concept and just actually being full on antags.

What tools? On one side you have:

Hall monitor: This fairly recent role I feel has a lot of potential for exactly this. You are distinctly separate from main security and in my view are an archtypical busybody built for interacting with low level mischievousness. If someone's doing something in the grey area, the hall monitor is -right- there and not really supposed (again in my view, and I'll die on this hill for saying I really think separating it as much as possible from actual security is good for exactly this reason) to be chasing down the antag except giving them a ticket for double-parking in the hallways.

Tickets & fines: I think this is partly why they're here: It's a visible token that yes, you've been a little scamp, and frankly its more interesting to look back on goonhub and see what ludicrous reasons you've been given a ticket or fine over "Yeah I got brigged this round" I like seeing what tickets people get post-round and I think this is a good level for those "grey area" crimes. They don't absorb too much time but they're still a tacit acknowledgement of your roleplay.

On the other: You can just be a funny little problem and still follow the rules. I know a few players who play characters specifically for this purpose really well. If security isn't paying attention all the better an opportunity for you to act. Upsilonyellow's Redd character is a random example: A lawyer guy who when there's downtime between cases has plenty of side gigs: selling dodgy insurance to people, pestering medbay for nanomedbay chasing that sort of thing. I've seen mimes prank steal invisible items from people, I've done a few less notable bits myself.

I do see security myself on the RP servers arrest people, but I'll be honest: a lot of the time it's for people who are, in my opinion: crossing a line between miscreantism and just self-antagging. I think it's important here to state my personal belief that actually if you're doing things that are resulting in being brigged at a time where it's not extended mode, it might be something I'd end up actually ahelping myself as you're genuinely absorbing time from antags.

That's the thing, it's a game where there's limited people ending up as the genuine bad guys and a limited pool of people whose role is specifically to deal with that, and I don't think it's a bad thing that this is generally how it works, and I think we've got tools for people who want to be a bit unscrupulous but not cross over that line, it's more just about making use of them.

[Taylorstar]

There are some positive paths security can take when it comes to interacting with other departments, coming from my limited experience as a security officer.

Botany can be asked to grow plants and make patches for security, if antaganoists are playing aggressive, I will quite often supply security with synthflesh and omnizine patches, wouldn't hurt for security to have a more active investment in making sure botanists are behaving themselves and getting some reward from it, linking up with the chef security could get more donuts using the baton approach.

For Medbay you can get the geneticists to do scans which would benefit your abilities like physical fitness and muscle enhancement, or even X-ray vision, Robotocists can augment the staff with cyber organs. I think when high action events happen like shootouts in security or the chapel more could be done to encourage doctors to be on standby with a portable triage like the portable medbay and nanomed

For science Chemistry can make all kinds chemicals that might help security and beaker bombs, I'd like to see them making something like glue beaker bombs for sec as a nice little help, artifact science occasionally get weapons/wands or small cell artifacts, great for tasers and batons, seeing an increase in artifacts could help increase interaction between the departments on that front.

Mining supplies materials for the station, indirectly this helps security I often see security officers making extra cells for their tasers, im not sure how that could be made more direct without making it needlessly contrived.

So while I do understand it feels like security and other departments don't mesh all the time there are a lot of avenues that can be taken, I just wonder if theres good ways to encourage people to take these avenues.