Cogmap 2: *** UPDATE TO BYOND 509 ASAP ***

[Sex_Robot]

Yeah it's worth noting that I just jammed beds in there because I wanted more beds, but couldn't think of anything else to put with them. They're just sort of there because I didn't want to put any unnecessary doors between people wanting to leave the ward and the exit. Players who can't leave an area with grab their emergency air cannister and bash their way out. It was a very rough mock up.

[Cogwerks]

Thank you for that effortpost, that is excellent feedback all around and I really appreciate it. Segmenting the interior corridor that way and having the chill-out / sleeper zone down below is great, and yeah, I can nix the vacuum pocket there and the opposing one up north. Maybe the asylum room should be a storage room instead for the paramedic shit? Idk. I think the big ward full of beds looks hecka cool.

Cloning isn't public access, that's a medbay-locked door. I'll probably give it a toggle on the inside so clonees can let themselves back out.

[quiltyquilty]

Just as a reply to all the stuff SL said:

I think that trying to take perspective into consideration when making the new doors is sort of a moot point, when the reality is that this "new perspective" project has walls with a totally nonexistent perspective, being, from topdown you can see both sides of the walls. Trying to make doors that totally match that standard would basically be impossible.

Along with that, even if the new doors were, in your opinion, "more correct" despite perfection being impossible, it seems that the truth, regardless of how correct said doors are, is that the older ones looked better. First of all, Supernorn originally sprited the doors to match up with the new walls, so is the padding theory totally correct? Why not change the walls to match up with the old doors instead, since the old doors were much more aesthetically pleasant?
Another good reason that the doors are not all that desirable is because, unlike the old doors, their color scheme doesn't totally match up with the walls. They're much darker and grittier, similar to the current doors. The shading isn't bubbly, and the colors aren't bright. It just doesn't match.

I hope that this feedback helps.

[Cogwerks]

I don't really interpret the walls as slanting, they seem perpendicular to the floors to me.

_| |_ , not _/ \_

[quiltyquilty]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that was the intention, and thus when both sides of the wall can be seen from the topdown perspective that comes in when walls are vertical, the perspective is impossible.

[Frank_Stein]

Hello, I'm just here to put out my dumb and probably bad opinions on the doors thing.

I think the big problem here is clashing perspectives. The horizontal walls are drawn in the same isometric-esque perspective as most of the new resprites are. However, vertical walls are done in an overhead-isometric perspective designed to show off the side faces of the wall. Then, these two perspectives mix again in the corner pieces. Finally, no wall sprite ever shows the back face. So, the walls aren't slanted at all.

So, when you create a door to fit the vertical wall segments that applies the rules of the horizontal wall segments, and then apply an isometrised variation of the rules of the vertical wall segments to adapt said door to fit horizontal wall segments, the products look funny.

Adding to this, I appreciate the kind of closed off lounge area for people to wait in above the pharmacy in Cog 1, where here the lounge is also part of the hallway. I think maybe just extending one of the walls where the blue crosses are, preferably the one on the left side, down two more tiles could help with making that a little more closed off, while also providing a nice ambush point.

[BaneOfGiygas]

So, the security department has gotten a few more changes, so I'll go through them and give my thoughts on the matter:

There are more solitary confinement units which are good, and while the positioning sort of threw me off at first, it makes sense that the solitary units would be nowhere near the other units or important shit in general. Plus, proximity to a maintenance tunnel means that a particularly savvy partner can bust you right out, which prevents it from being the absolute "you're stuck here until sec decides to let you leave" zone it is currently.

The armory's gotten some very nice changes, including an atropine auto-injector (a little weird, but could have some good uses), some heavy armor instead of the EOD suits that no one ever uses, and a blastdoor-coverable reinforced table that the HoS can use to give out armory supplies without having to open the place up and risk a sneaky staff assistant rushing in and lighting the place on fire or whatever.

There's more medical supplies, which helps security officers patch both themselves up and anyone they might bring in without having to go all the way to medbay, which may or may not be a deathzone at any given point in time. There's even a sleeper, too!

Now, here's an unpopular (probably) opinion: I think that the armory weapons should stay on the tables and should not be kept in lockers. As of right now, the vast majority of armory break-ins are performed by precisely two groups of people: Wizards and traitors with emags. While it shouldn't exactly get broken into every other round, part of the job of the Head of Security and the security team in general is to make sure that the armory gear and other dangerous things don't get misused. The problem is, when armory break-ins are so infrequent, it's rare that you have people ready to prepare for them when they do happen.

And, let's be honest, it's not like the armory is full of insta-kill machines (though I do think the riot shotguns could do with a slight nerfing, as discussed before) that would spell death for the entire station if a traitor got their hands on them. Hell, the only reason why most people loot the armory is less so that they can have the shit in there and more so that security CAN'T have the shit in there. Having armory break-ins be more viable would increase the likelihood of people actually breaking into the place, and would consequentially help security devise methods of dealing with them and heighten awareness in general. Furthermore, it would allow a particularly desperate security department to hack their way into the armory and get the contents therein in the face of desperate circumstances, and I think that's a good thing because it helps prevent situations in which the antagonists have monopolized all of the dangerous shit and left the station with very little to stop them.

Though I do understand why leaving the weapons on the tables could be seen negatively. It leaves security with another thing to worry about when the new map has presented them with all sorts of shit to worry about, it could devalue the position of HoS in general, it could get broken into every damn round and get really annoying after about a week, and so on and so forth. Personally, I think that it's best to leave the weapons on tables right now and see how things play out when the new map launches. If it ends up being a problem, stick them back in the lockers. If it doesn't, it doens't.

[Frank_Stein]

Nah, I think it's better to leave them out in the open, but with some new safety features like the room locking down, knock out gas being released, or guard buddies being sent there when the IR beams are broken.

It should be designed like a heist movie vault. Multiple counter measures, but with the loot sitting there looking pretty.

[Noah Buttes]

Just as a reply to all the stuff SL said:

I think that trying to take perspective into consideration when making the new doors is sort of a moot point, when the reality is that this "new perspective" project has walls with a totally nonexistent perspective, being, from topdown you can see both sides of the walls. Trying to make doors that totally match that standard would basically be impossible.

Along with that, even if the new doors were, in your opinion, "more correct" despite perfection being impossible, it seems that the truth, regardless of how correct said doors are, is that the older ones looked better. First of all, Supernorn originally sprited the doors to match up with the new walls, so is the padding theory totally correct? Why not change the walls to match up with the old doors instead, since the old doors were much more aesthetically pleasant?
Another good reason that the doors are not all that desirable is because, unlike the old doors, their color scheme doesn't totally match up with the walls. They're much darker and grittier, similar to the current doors. The shading isn't bubbly, and the colors aren't bright. It just doesn't match.

I hope that this feedback helps.

This sums up my opinion.

[Noah Buttes]

Regarding the armory, everything about it seems cool except for the EOD armor being replaced by heavy armor.


Man, that armor slows you down to a snail's pace. I mean, sure, it's good for surviving things, but it's not so good for apprehending perps.

[Cogwerks]

EOD armor is sitting in the cart outside of the armory, along with a pair of multitools. Heavy armor in the armory is just a thought. I'd like the eod stuff to be more accessible to at least one or two guards on the team. If EOD makes heavy armor totally unnecessary, what else should be in there?

Currently I've got two launchers (+1 outside), four stun-round shotguns, four phasers, three sets of armor.
I was thinking of maybe making CS gas or flashbang rounds for the launcher in the armory, but eh, idk yet.

Could you folks, especially HoS players, talk about what role you want the armory to serve? I gave it a table under a shutter so the HoS can sit in there and hand stuff out over the desk if they want instead of having people barge in. I'd like it to be a source of specific tools for responding to problems more than necessarily a "everything went to hell, go lethal" thing. Laser guns feel too strong to me... but maybe a pair of lasers and a bunch of phasers? Phasers seem pretty nice for spamming fire down a hallway at changelings or nuke ops or whatever. I dumped the tranq guns that were in there earlier.

Premade flamethrowers might be useful for some purposes but they're not hard to make either, so using the armory to restrict them is pointless, but I'm not sure that restriction of toys should really be the role of the armory.

For "take all the guns out" scenarios, I like to imagine a beleagured HoS and the last couple of guards deputizing some passerby and working together, deciding who gets what tools to use rather than having the same kit for four people. Like two guards in armor acting as a walking barricade and a bunch with the weaker stuff as backup.... but that may be expecting too much coordination. What would be fun for that?

Might be worth dusting off the old riot shields from long ago, I kinda liked those.

[RAWK_LAWBSTAR]

CS gas rounds for the launchers would work certainly be more useful than the current smoke rounds for dealing with unruly crowds, though perhaps they should have smaller area of effect. Security would need gas masks though to go with them to protect themselves from it. I think what would be more useful though is something like a bee-hive round that has a spread to it, some sort of taser-bomb or concussion round that has a small area of effect, or a some sort of lightning gun that doesn't have a projectile and just shoots a beam where you click it. Hell, make a bunch of high power goodies in the armory and then randomize what it has in it each round. The rest could be bought from the market for a chunk of spacecredits.

[salix_catus]

I like how the different sections of the station have their names on the walls.
This whole section ( from the spare reagent tanks to the janitors closet) should have a name: http://goonhub.com/maps/cogmap2#l=160,122,1;z=1.2
I really think combining all of those was a great idea. It sort of feels like a new department.
something like Resources, Manufacturing or The Factory.
Hmm. There should be a new factory worker job.
Equal access as staff assistants but they start in the arc smelter room with a dirty brown jumpsuit and objectives to make X number of X item.

[BaneOfGiygas]

RE: The armory

For me, the armory is for situations when due process has officially left the station and the security team needs to turn themselves into an impromptu strike team to deal with particularly big and nasty threats to the station, like a nuke ops team or rampant stimulant abusers. It's for when tasers, stun batons, and standard-issue armor just isn't gonna cut it and you need something bigger to not get your shit kicked in if whatever you're fighting so much as looks at you. Riot shotguns basically function as super-powerful tasers, letting them serve as security's ace in the hole for when shit gets really bad, and helping put them on about the same playing field with the super-powerful antagonists they're fighting.

Basically, the armory should contain what amounts to Security Gear+, with riot shotguns functioning as super-tasers, heavy armor giving a solid upgrade over the standard-issue security armor, some lethal weapons for when stunning shit isn't quite as viable, and a few specialty tools. I wouldn't be opposed to putting a tactical grenade or two in there, though flamethrowers seem a bit excessive.

[Ed Venture]

For me I use the armory when I feel there is a great enough threat, be it syndies or a traitor rampaging. I use the armory to match the firepower of my foes. But the it's the last resort for me. I use the armory when I am outnumber or if I feel the person I need to stop is knows what they are doing. I also give the weapons to my officers when I know they will be overwhelm.

And, let's be honest, it's not like the armory is full of insta-kill machines (though I do think the riot shotguns could do with a slight nerfing, as discussed before)

Well honestly stun guns are insanely powerful at the moment and I feel like both the tasers and the shotguns are instant win weapons currently. Shoot someone once with a taser and they are defenseless, shoot them twice and go in for the kill. Shoot someone once with the shotgun and go in for the kill.