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[PR] Gives captain a mindshield
#1
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About the PR
Gives captain a mindshield, the same one that secoffs currently have.


Why's this needed?
Captain is a very easy target for which a lot of people to mindhack for free AA + gun + instantly rogue AI, which is very unfun for the crew and the captain, and results in captains often getting treated with suspicion by crew.

The main aim is to aim a more trusted and responsible role, especially now that # 18275 is coming.
(P.S. even if 18275 doesn't get merged, I would still propose this change, as currently both playing as and against mindhacked captains is very often considerably unfun.)

Changelog



Code:
changelog
(u)Chatausours
(*)Captains now recieve a mindshield implant.


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#2
said this on the pr itself already, but not really a fan of blanket fixing the issue of mindhacks being super powerful instant click items by giving more mindshield implants to roles capable of causing more damage. the captain is a fairly strong person on station, all access opens up a lot of doors (not to mention their gun/sword), but the hop could very easily fall into this hole if the captain is phased out.

i do like that the pr makes the captain a more trustable person, though. just wish there were more ways to do it
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#3
I agree with retrino with this one, I personally feel like it's more of an issue of how powerful mindhacks are, and just using mindshields to bandaid fix the true problem of mindhacks is not that great of a solution.
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#4
Mindhacks need to be powerfull, since we got no other way for traitors to get additional allies. I couldn't care less about the loot and a derringer is more effective if you want to loot the capain.

This would change if the stance on reentry into the game would change. That would enable to give traitors the option to simply buy reeinforcements chosen from ghosts. This does not work well with classic and will most likely require rule-changes, though.

If it's about the captain loot, give them a mindshield. I don't think it's strong enough to deserve it, though.
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#5
I think Mindhacks would be a lot more interesting mechanically if they kind of worked like rev implants. Instead of Mindhacks allowing you to instantly take someone over with one click, you would have to damage your target significantly (near crit or crit) at which point the mindhack will kick into action and will heal the target out of crit (bullet fragments be damned). Alternatively, you would be able to flash/stun your target and the mindhack would also work. Just a thought.

With this implementation I don't think mindshields would be necessary.
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#6
This is just going to lead to people targeting the HoP, and eventually there will be a PR to give them a mindshield as well.

(Well, if they don't target the robust players, that is)
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#7
I like Cleaverwolf's interpertation.

But how about this? Mindshields only stop INSTANT injections.
But if you beat em to crit, the mindshield implant fails and then you can mindhack em.

This means all unimportant members will be free game regardless, but valuable members means you gotta beat someone up to low health before mindshielding stops working. Naturally if they heal it goes back up and such. And once mindhacked, the mindshield doesn't do anything.

This way we bandaid a problem, but reintroduce old methodes to return.

"Why do antags mindhack security or captain?" Their loot and access.
So why not change it that the traitor has "fight" for the right of it. And in the meantime alerts go off in that time. Thus making it riskier.
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#8
I think mindhacks should need an action bar and buying them should come with a flash, imo
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#9
(04-03-2024, 07:25 AM)Kotlol Wrote: So why not change it that the traitor has "fight" for the right of it. And in the meantime alerts go off in that time. Thus making it riskier.

Because then the others know the attacked is compromised. Alerts going off is the problem with the action bar.

It's actively working against the social deduction facet the mindhack brings into the game.

I've seen security, on RP, use metaknowledge enough that this will be a problem. Like checking bibles, stealing salvager/gang headsets and searching for stealth storages.
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#10
(04-02-2024, 11:34 PM)Cleaverwolf Wrote: I think Mindhacks would be a lot more interesting mechanically if they kind of worked like rev implants. Instead of Mindhacks allowing you to instantly take someone over with one click, you would have to damage your target significantly (near crit or crit) at which point the mindhack will kick into action and will heal the target out of crit (bullet fragments be damned). Alternatively, you would be able to flash/stun your target and the mindhack would also work. Just a thought.

With this implementation I don't think mindshields would be necessary.
If the mindhack wasn't instant it would invalidate the usefulness of the mindhack implant entirely. You are catching them unaware. If they have time to scream "I AM BEING MINDHACKED BY ANTAG MCTRAITOR" while you try to kill them what's even the point? Everyone knows they're either mindhacked or you're an antag now. Mindhack would go from being a very good item to a "never take this" item.

WRT beating people into crit: that's basically what you have to do already. Just gotta beat them a little more till they're dead, or sneakily cut out their implant (this never happens except maybe on RP)

Captain is slowly being shifted into a more serious role, instead of a joke role, which I view as a good thing. This helps that shift, while still keeping the mindhack implant relevant.
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#11
(04-03-2024, 02:27 PM)Sord213 Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 11:34 PM)Cleaverwolf Wrote: I think Mindhacks would be a lot more interesting mechanically if they kind of worked like rev implants. Instead of Mindhacks allowing you to instantly take someone over with one click, you would have to damage your target significantly (near crit or crit) at which point the mindhack will kick into action and will heal the target out of crit (bullet fragments be damned). Alternatively, you would be able to flash/stun your target and the mindhack would also work. Just a thought.

With this implementation I don't think mindshields would be necessary.
If the mindhack wasn't instant it would invalidate the usefulness of the mindhack implant entirely. You are catching them unaware.

it is worth noting that the instant nature of the mindhack makes it more than just catching someone unaware, but also really powerful in combat. it is one of the few items that can instantly disable someone, and moreover have them obey only you for 20 minutes, which on server 1 is like.. a third of the round.

there are ways to prevent people from shouting out over radio the second something gets suspicious, giving the implant less of an instant effect could still be balanced out by something like a hypo full of perf preventing them from using the radio entirely for that period of time
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#12
Captains will get a round-start health implant, plus medical *and* security alerts-on-crit/death with this, which I don't think has been explicitly brought up in discussion?

A mindshield-only implant that alerts Command staff on death/removal feels a bit more interesting and balanced interaction than making the captain a lot closer to HoS2.
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#13
(04-02-2024, 09:20 PM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: Mindhacks need to be powerfull, since we got no other way for traitors to get additional allies. I couldn't care less about the loot and a derringer is more effective if you want to loot the capain.

This would change if the stance on reentry into the game would change. That would enable to give traitors the option to simply buy reeinforcements chosen from ghosts. This does not work well with classic and will most likely require rule-changes, though.

If it's about the captain loot, give them a mindshield. I don't think it's strong enough to deserve it, though.

Lol, regular mind hacks already does not work well with classic, if anything, reviving a ghost would work MUCH better with classic than how regular mind hacks works, since currently often mind hacks are just used on "robust" people
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#14
(04-03-2024, 08:20 PM)Angel Wrote: Lol, regular mind hacks already does not work well with classic, if anything, reviving a ghost would work MUCH better with classic than how regular mind hacks works, since currently often mind hacks are just used on "robust" people

For context: i recall we had the problem with people suiciding roundstart if they didn't roll antag. The problem was not the same people being mindhacked often, but people trying to cheat the system.

(04-03-2024, 04:52 PM)Retrino Wrote: there are ways to prevent people from shouting out over radio the second something gets suspicious, giving the implant less of an instant effect could still be balanced out by something like a hypo full of perf preventing them from using the radio entirely for that period of time

A perf hypospray is already very high on the nerdery scale.
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#15
If you wanted the slow timer on the implant, then making the mindhack be unable to speak until the implant is removed/takes over could be an option. People would still use PDAs to shout out however.

I think that having the mindhack be instant is still the better way.
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