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[CLOSED PR] Adds viscorgans to the medical fabricator
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About the PR
This pr replaces the cyberorgans in the medical fabricator with viscorgans, organs made out of viscerite. These are functionally similar to normal organs except for the fact they have 20 less health. This also gives the medical fabricator 3 viscerite (and in order to do so ups every other mat to 3) so they can print out roughly 6 roundstart.
[Image: 7088c91b-1c90-410c-9a20-afb669f5ad3f]

Why's this needed?
This makes cyberorgans unique to robotics manufacturers, which should hopefully help with giving roboticists stuff to do as you have to go to them for organs that enchance. Oh also gives a use to viscerite and just seems thematically neater.


(*)The cyberorgans in the medical fabricator have been replaced with cheaper but worse viscorgans.

This will drive organ replacements away from doctors onto roboticists. I kinda like the idea of it.

Only problem is tiding MD's, borgs and doctors breaking into robotics to get their dirty hands onto the organs, once viscerite runs out.

Also, viscerite based otems are mostly extremly alien/harmfull. Making normal, functioning organs out if it feels odd.

Dunno, maybe sonething ekse instead of viscerite for common organ replacements would be better theme-wise.
I'm really big on this idea. As I've always found it odd that the cyberorgans are in the med fab in the first place. This gives incentive to go to robotics to get the upgraded version as opposed to just having a doctor do it.

plus doctors dealing with fleshy parts while roboticists deal with metal parts just makes sense. hope this gets merged Sleeping bee
This looks very nice. It gives a valuable use to viscerite; and differentiates the work of medical doctors (saving you from your dead liver), and roboticists (improving you through cybernetic enhancements). It also offers a way to save someone from a lost heart without breaking into robotics.

Imo: cyberorgans in the roboticist's manufacturer, doctors rely on a range of synthorgans from botany.

"But botany doesn't make stuff for people" - resolve in-game via social pressure.

"But there are never roboticists who want to do organ replacements" - half the threads are around how roboticists don't have stuff to do. Doctors taking over the organ replacement was the misstep here.

"What if there aren't any roboticists?" - break in, there manufacturer doesn't require a special ID. Alternatively, stroll down to cargo and have them print you a bunch.

"Doing the above every round sounds tedious" - so don't. Cloning exists, and if it doesn't then ship people who die due to organ issues to robotics for borging.

Essentially, I think this PR is not addressing the problem. I would not be opposed to them being in the robotics manufacturer as a way of saving metal resources.
I like this idea but as Mordent says.. it doesnt get to the root cause.

Surgery has been very streamlined as of late, but I'd like to have a "cryotube" equivalant of a surgery machine.
Slow and steady, but safe and easy to use.

Where as doing it by hand is faster but riskier. Especially useful if mass organ transplanting needs to happen. Also it is just newbie friendlier to use this "surgery machine" and then learning how to do surgery faster, but also a need to learn if the power goes out.

Putting this in robotics, will automatically make them the "go to surgery" people because of the device.
And it won't solve the "What if there aren't any roboticists issue" But it would atleast guide robotcists to have the "easy surgery"
I'd honestly rather just remove all organs but appendix, pancreas and liver if we aren't going to chuck every Cyberorgan from the fabricator/add an alternative.
I think instead synthorgans should be buffed to be actual alternatives to cyberorgans and normal ones

Edit: Would not be opposed if these had a slight benefit and a larger downside
(01-25-2024, 03:12 AM)Mordent Wrote: Imo: cyberorgans in the roboticist's manufacturer, doctors rely on a range of synthorgans from botany.
"Doing the above every round sounds tedious" - so don't. Cloning exists, and if it doesn't then ship people who die due to organ issues to robotics for borging.

With the possible exception of highpop roleplay which has a higher chance of having roboticists just idly standing around in robotics, just cloning is what it will boil down to 99%, which honestly I'd hate to see. Roboticists are infrequent, and your suggestions wont change that because their work will still be not much and heavily inconsistent. I think organ transplants are the coolest part of doctoring, and I'd hate to see it boil down even more to "just clone them", it's a very cool system I don't think doctors should have to go through 3 hoops to do them. Im for encouraging roboticists to do organ transplants when available, but I'd prefer doing that by making cyberorgans better then viscorgans instead of requiring roboticists.

To keep on that note, I wouldn't be opposed to making viscorgans objectively even more worse. Currently their only downside is lower health which is meh, meaningless in practice. Some type of stamina reduction from them could be fun, the descriptions I made for them try to convey them as shady and unreliable and I wouldn't be opposed to leaning into that mechanically (ie the viscorgans are sapping nutrients away from you). This will probably be in the form of a status effect that lowers your stam that way you're constantly reminded of that thing inside of you. Also emagging them leading to continual health decay sounds fun as well that way you can sabotage people with emagged viscorgans. 

Also synthorgans are kinda useless in general right now, the idea of you being able to eat them and (after a one minute ish action bar), them replacing your organ seems fun and gives them a unique use was one I liked, though that's outside of this prs scope.

Also floating this idea here because it was floated on discord, what would be the thoughts on making some cyberorgans (heart and lungs) require CON-3 ie clarentine.
Highpop roleplay accounts for the majority of our players' experience at any given time. Nothing is stopping doctors from asking for organs to be printed in advance by any of: roboticists, cyborgs, the AI, quartermasters. They are not prohibited from doing it. As it stands, roboticists are discouraged from doing it by virtue of "doctors can do it".
Having doctors raid roboticist fabs every round just sound boring, I still prefer this approach with the tweaks of viscorgan stam reduction
(01-25-2024, 05:07 AM)Ikea Wrote: Having doctors raid roboticist fabs every round just sound boring, I still prefer this approach with the tweaks of viscorgan stam reduction

Sure. Which is why it'd be better if roboticists did them. The above suggestions assume a roboticist doesn't want to do their job/doesn't exist.
I would definitely be fine having the viscerite organs be even worse if coding it is not an issue. For instance having a viscerite stomach only allowing a single food buff, or things like that. It would be nice to have some kind of crummy organ to squish into a person if you have not already harvested a monkey in advance. I do not like the suggestions that seem to be "Doctors get no organs unless they beg for them. Only surgery for Roboticists" though. I like playing doctor and I like doing surgery, and just flat out removing any reliable (if crummy) way to do surgery would feel pretty bad.

It seems like: "This is a boring thing for robotcists to do"
Is a common problem.

In my opinion... Doctoring can be fun too, but is mostly jampacked and frustrating... thus on a lot of shifts, doctors are in a low and you cannot do a gimmick like: "I am a skin doctor"

Meanwhile 3 robotcists get in eachothers way and have nothing to do... mostly if I get roboticist with 3 others... i become a doctor by default or wander about.

So I think it's time roboticists drop to two per station. Two is a perfect number to run any roboticist lab as the 3rd one 9/10 is just the "3rd wheel" and only is useful if the are two are newbies.

Anyway enough derailing, back to viscerite organs....
I know a perfect way of making viscerite organs an useful alternative DESPITE being worst.

Now hear me out... It doesn't require surgery to add a visercite organ.
Someone's heart stops? Print a visercite heart and left click on it to start an action bar to replace it. Once done... the organ replaces it self.
So insted of cutting someone open.. the alternative and worst organ.. doesn't require ANY surgery at all.

Thus giving Synth organs a reason to exist, donors and also cyborg parts. But at the same time NOT being useless at ALL.

From a gameplay standpoint and newbie stand point it makes sense the "Easier way to fix things" should be the worst approach, but the full on fix or improvement the hardest and most risk.

By making visercite organs litterly be: "Just eat it and it will replace your current organ" , suddenly that life saving surgery under much stress is delayed.
It also means we can introduce more ways of Organ Damaging for fun ways to play.

See it as "Auto Mending" for organs, but the result isn't as good as doing straight up surgery!
Roboticists shouldn't have a monopoly on surgery, but Mordent's solution of pre-ordering organs from Botany has such a high chance of those organs never getting used (as discussed in a similarly-themed thread focused on interdepartmental collaboration between the Chef and Botany) that that's exactly what will happen. "Resolving in-game via social pressure" means changing the culture of the game, and design decisions that rely on doing that should make cultural change a *focus,* rather than blindly hoping that culture will change in a certain way. Botany's not going to want to grow synthorgans for medical if they only get used 5% of the time; that "social pressure" will lead to friction between the departments. Sure, Medical might get their organs, but both sides end up frustrated and upset by the process if social pressure needs to be applied.

Roboticists aren't actively discouraged from surgery just because doctors can do it-- They're discouraged from it because the same doctor who starts treating the patient's other injuries is the one who scans the guy and notices the organ needs replacing. Changing organ fabrication to be Robotics-exclusive encourages a "hand-off" of patients between doctors and roboticists, but I don't think the enhancement that handoff adds to gameplay (and roleplay for RP) is worth the hit to treatment time and the challenge of communicating what's wrong with the patient. This is a game where you can't do things as you talk, and you can do things far faster than you can talk about doing things-- I don't like the idea of.

All that being said, I do think that moving the highly-powerful cyberorgans to be robotics-exclusive is a good idea! Giving doctors shitty organs to replace as a slapdash solution is way cooler than just giving them the same fancy stuff Robotics has, and making the fabricated organs *bad* gives doctors an incentive to prepare their own organs by harvesting organs from dead monkeys. I'd personally like to see one or two medical cadavers supplied in the morgue at roundstart for doctors to harvest, either as an alternative to the viscerite organs or just as a full-on replacement... I just think it's cooler.

My biggest (and frankly, only) gripe with this PR is from a lore perspective... Viscerite is martian meat, martian building material, etc... It's easy for martians to mold, reshape, and build with is, because they are it and it is them. It's incredibly out of place to me for a fabricator to be able to sculpt viscerite into working organs-- humanity's not been shown being able to do something like that before AFAIK.

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