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[PR] Move Counter-Revolutionary Implants from QM to Security
#1
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PULL REQUEST DETAILS

[GAME MODES][GAME OBJECTS][BALANCE][INPUT WANTED][QoL]

About the PR
This PR removes counter-revolutionary implants as a QM purchase.

A counter-revolutionary implant dispenser is now found in the Security department on each map. Each can hold a max of 7 implants and will auto-fabricate implants every 12 seconds up to its max.

Also removes a single loyalty implant box from each map to account for the dispenser.

Maybe it goes against the theme of the station to buy new implants, not sure.

Why's this needed?
This is mainly meant to counter revs going for QM deconstruction. If QM computers are deconstructed, and the spare board in tech storage is destroyed, the only other way to get new implants is to mechscan SecTechs, but that's rarely done/thought of too.

This helps add a way of preventing revs from completely shutting down obtaining implants.

Also, probably a lot of ways you can think about how this would change things, but I would imagine it would also help reinforce Security as a place to be wary of, and that revs really need to group up on to attack. Maybe it will allow some more interesting fights when attacking Security?

Changelog
Code:
changelog
(u)FlameArrow57
(*)Counter-revolutionary implants are no longer a QM purchase. Instead, a new counter-revolutionary implant dispenser is found in each Security department, which holds up to 7 implants and auto-fabricates implants every 12 seconds.


PULL REQUEST DETAILS
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#2
Or improvements/suggestions/alternatives? Just one idea, regarding deconstruction of QM computers in rev rounds
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#3
Not a classic player, but why not have both? I feel like they'd just swap from deconstructing QM computers to bombing sec first and foremost to get rid of the dispenser
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#4
Opposed. I feel like revs are too weak at the moment. Having a 4th area of interesest (other 3 being sec, medbay and upload) is pretty necessary for the mode.

You can still buy counter revs from any of the request consoles littered around the station. Maybe add one in sec if it doesn't have it already
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#5
I personally feel like moving implants to sec is a good idea but it would require some changes to how the implants work to balance it out. Unsure what. Also I don't have much confidence in my opinion being a good one here, please don't take it as an official dev opinion.
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#6
Yep, I think you couldn't do this without changing the implants significantly as currently security/command being spread thin trying to get implants is important for balance. With this change as it is there's no reason for command/security to do anything other than hole up in sec and shoot armoury gear out the windows while occasionally implanting anyone who steps inside.
I do agree the QM rush is kind of wacky, but I don't think this is a good way to fix it.
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#7
Security is already a high value target because of the armory. Don't think we need to enforce that much further. QM as one of the focal points of the mode is a good thing, but maybe we should add another one. Like giving the MD a manudrive for the implants and making them costly to produce.
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#8
Honestly, I like moving the focal point from Cargo to Sec, but I heavily dislike how's it's done here. A regenerating dispenser makes a new implant each 12 seconds, that's 5 implants per minute. That's 50 implants per minute, which is pretty close to the average goon1 pop. That's not balanced at all.
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#9
(11-04-2023, 07:02 AM)Caio029 Wrote: Honestly, I like moving the focal point from Cargo to Sec, but I heavily dislike how's it's done here. A regenerating dispenser makes a new implant each 12 seconds, that's 5 implants per minute. That's 50 implants per minute, which is pretty close to the average goon1 pop. That's not balanced at all.


The numbers/method can be changed at any time in the PR
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#10
Not a fan of this, massive buff to security on rev rounds when security already steamrolls revs. Revs will be unable to destroy the implant generator due to how guarded security is. Not to mention this massively increases the amount of implants available on rev rounds.
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#11
I think the core idea of moving loyalty production to sec instead of cargo is a good one, that being said I think this execution fails in a few regards. Currently the cargo based meta means that 1. Security has to go outside of sec to get more loyalty implants 2. Other people can help get more implants by giving stuff to cargo to sell and 3. Production roughly scales with pop because the more pop you have the more people that will do 2.

Instead of a machine that produces implants out of thin air, why not just have a security fabricator that takes like .5/5 copper/con-1 and .5/5 glass/cry-1 to make an implant in like ten seconds? Other departments can still help out by providing materials, and security has to actively raid the station/get more from cargo to make more loyalties.
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#12
Didn't sec used to have loyality implants but limited and you used QM to get more?
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#13
Security already has loyalty implants in limited quantity, I don't agree with the reasoning to give security free implants. I think requiring loyal crew to use two departments, Security and QM, to obtain loyalty implants is a good thing. Revs having a place to sabotage that isn't initially heavily guarded is *good*. I certainly agree, however, that it is cheesy in a way to dispose of the consoles. Rather than have free implants in security, I would like to see backup boards for consoles in a secure area, or perhaps keep the AI in the mix by giving them a way to always order items from QM, if granted authority or whatnot (as I imagine on non-revs, or when rogue, this would make the AI nigh unstoppable.)

- Backup boards in security
Still stealable, perhaps this should be in the Armory so it's harder to steal. Gives more incentive for the armory, but still a pain to have to bring the board all the way back to QM to reclaim it for the loyals left.

- AI granted permanent access to QM
Could be bad in the wrong hands, but that's the entirety of AI to start. Brings it into the revs dynamic in more of a way than 'kill all revs!!' law, or 'kill all heads!!' law, where AI struggles with determining who's who to start with. I think giving AI more of a role in revs like this could be interesting.

- AI granted restricted access to QM
Would limit damage in the event the AI is rogue on a normal round and wants to mess with QM, and makes QMs relevant rather than 'AI order [product]' getting over the radio. Could be restricted in a variety of ways, such as station state (enabled when revs is confirmed only, or armory auth), explicit authority (robotics control computer 'disable AI QM restrictions'), etc.

I think there's better alternatives than giving Security just a completely busted tool. Regardless of the rate, it's going to encourage heads/sec to hole up in the department, as it's been said before. And if it's too slow, why should they bother? They start with a fair amount in there.
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#14
Pardon as I’m coming in having played very little revs, but does security not buy implants direct from personal accountfrom request consoles? Even if cargo is compromised, you can still intercept the packages with a pod. Not all maps have that console in security, sure, but a good number do.
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#15
yeah i think its kinda weird and shitty that the best way to win revs is cripple cargo before they can even react... and on Sec's end, it's take it over before they can react (pushing QM out of a job) by either loyalty the QMs into helping you, or just trust them to help you (LOL)

I kinda like the idea of security having to "hold out". the REAL zombie mode right here
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