A Change to Cargo Transporters

[Wrench-1]

QMs have multiple ways to ship their goods around the station. Whether it be through the MULE, Belt Hell, or by delivering on foot. But these ways are relatively redundant due to the power of the Cargo Transporter, and QMs will only ever use this as their means of shipping Cargo, leaving the MULE unused for anything outside of gimmicks, and Belt Hell only being used by the Clown that wants to get around the station more funny. In addition, the Cargo Transporter being accessible to a few other departments also makes their other methods of delivering goods to Cargo equally as redundant for the same reasons. The Cargo Transporter being able to teleport Cargo instantaneously from one destination to another is still great QoL and I'll never propose for its removal, but I will propose for it to be gated somewhat and not be accessible from round start.

So what I propose is this:

• All Cargo Telepads and Cargo Transporters are no longer present on stations at round start.
  
• For 100k (spit balling a price), QMs can buy a Cargo Transporter Starter Kit that comes with two Cargo Telepad Frames, and two Cargo Transporters and a Soldering Iron.
  
• QMs will then have to go to the department they'll want to link to the Transporter Network and deploy a Telepad there and hand over a Transporter. This gets QMs out of Cargo more and encourages them to interact with the crew.
  
• Telepads can still be Mech Scanned, but they now require a telecrystal to fabricate.
  

The idea of this proposed change is to get QMs and the rest of the crew using other means of Cargo transportation early in the round to deliver their goods around the station, to provide Cargo with another money sink to spend their money on, and to get QMs out of their department and interacting with other players. A more active Belt Hell early in rounds could also lead to some Antag shenanigans with them stealing, or blocking Cargo at specific spots in the Belt Hell. Could also lead to some funny accidents involving someone getting decked in the face by a stray Cargo Crate and taking heavy brute damage. Of course these can all still occur currently, but will definitely occur more frequently with the gating away of Cargo Transporters.

A workaround to the lack of Cargo Transporters could also be fixed with Engineers setting up MechComp Teleporters. I personally see this as just as good and as valid as setting up a Cargo Transporter network and it accomplishes the same thing. Gets players interacting with other players and requires an amount of effort to get working. There are definitely even more work arounds that I am not thinking of. But anything to make the gameplay loop of shipping Cargo less static, the better.

[Dhaidburt]

I'm half for this, cargo can often devolve into either spending all shift in your hidey hole or begging the crew to actually buy things. Though, considering how other departments use the cargo transporter I feel like this needs some polish. Especially on some maps, Mining would be severely crippled by a lack of a cargo transporter.

Nadir and Oshan basically require it if you actually search for and find artifacts, and Donut2 is incredibly far from cargo or any other belts, and also has science on a whole nother Z level. All other maps I can see tolerating the change and just shoving the responsibilty onto cargo or nearby belts, but those three maps would suddenly become the worst for artlab as miners would rather just abandon the artifacts.

I bring up Nadir and Oshan since they can't be fixed with mechcomp teleporters, unless they carry a button a teleporter and a multitool with them everywhere they go inside the trenches.

[Lord_earthfire]

Something like this will require a massive mapping changes. Because both the belt network and mule system simply... don't work well. Mules could be axed and i would not shed a single tear.

Personally, this will have massive repercussions. Debris field, artsci and azone explorations rather commonly rely on cargo transporters for bringing stuff home, as much as off-station transportation. We will need replacement for these, like a teleporter that sends stuff to a central location. A cargo-hub, you could say.

A cargo-hub would be a nice place for criming as well. All the loot, ripe for the taking.

[Meggal Bozale]

I think it's fair to reduce the power of the cargo transporter considering how it does dwarf the other two methods, and it would be interesting to see it as an 'upgrade' to QM for sure. As said above, however, the cargo transporters are a massive **convenience** for everyone, so it's not likely such a change gets taken well. Having the mail system, belt router system, and mule system be made more appealing should, in my opinion, do well as a first step, before removing the cargo transporter. That way, it's a bit more easy on the landing.
(Obviously, I'm all for this change. But I almost never play QM...)

[Kotlol]

It's simple really..
We just nerf cargo transporters like we nerfed cloning. "Malfunctioning"

The problem however is that certain maps like Donut 2 have their research stations futher away from the main station. (NOT ON A DIFFERENT Z LEVEL! They are on the same one.) So they just need a spot to get launched to... not a big map change.

The only maps where alternative ways to cargo is harder are the underwater maps due to not having what they need to transport alternatively cept via MULE.

But as far as I can see.. we can nerf the cargo transporters and force people to use Mules and such....

BUT there is ONE who will suffer from cargo transporter malfunctioning. Mining.
As on most maps THEY WORK on a different Z level.

What I recommend here is to give a specific MINING transporter that only sends things to Cargo. Who then has to reroute it to the correct location.
This will stop cargo from annoying mining to take their cargo transporter since it doesnt malfunction.

And obiviously QMs can get a transporter upgrade eventually.. but before then.. it's slower, clunkier and it can malfunction wich messes with the cargo in some weird way. (Or make it so like port-a-sci malfunctions and weird stuff happens or gets transported a long, would be funny if the chest became a mimic and such)

[Lord_earthfire]

It's simple really..
We just nerf cargo transporters like we nerfed cloning. "Malfunctioning"

I think adding malfunctioning to a mechanic that is absolutely required to work flawless to be used (logostics) is a very, very bad idea. It is not compareable to cloning. With cloning, we want people to actually stay dead to a degree.

It's the exact reason why noone uses the cargo belt or mules. They are unreliable. Out of all the time cargo send crates to me by mule, i received maybe 40% of them.

The only think this makes is making me walk instead of using any cargo routing method.

The belt system and mules need to work, be convenient and able to reach the departments. For as long as they lack in these areas for most departments, they won't be used much.

[Kotlol]

It's simple really..
We just nerf cargo transporters like we nerfed cloning. "Malfunctioning"

I think adding malfunctioning to a mechanic that is absolutely required to work flawless to be used (logostics) is a very, very bad idea. It is not compareable to cloning. With cloning, we want people to actually stay dead to a degree.

It's the exact reason why noone uses the cargo belt or mules. They are unreliable. Out of all the time cargo send crates to me by mule, i received  maybe 40% of them.

The only think this makes is making me walk instead of using any cargo routing method.

The belt system and mules need to work, be convenient and able to reach the departments. For as long as they lack in these areas for most departments, they won't be used much.

Well if the alternatives aren't working well.. yea then I agree with you. 

While cargo transporters are abit "too good"
If the alternatives just suck... why bother?

We might as well add alternative fast ways that cost resources insted like I don't know? The mailchute now has a cargo chute? Some stations have it like Donut 3 but only 1 way.. so maybe adding that will be a good alternative.

[Lord_earthfire]

Well if the alternatives aren't working well.. yea then I agree with you. 

While cargo transporters are abit "too good"
If the alternatives just suck... why bother?

We might as well add alternative fast ways that cost resources insted like I don't know? The mailchute now has a cargo chute? Some stations have it like Donut 3 but only 1 way.. so maybe adding that will be a good alternative.

Yeah, i think when we improve the ways the other systems work we could then begin nerfing cargo transporters.

What i was thinking was to expand the departments to have a dedicated mulebot dropoff-zone. That way, people know where the stuff arrives and the mulebots will very likely have a place to deposit. Of course they need an overhaul in their AI, but at least what is not happening is crates placed infront of the door. That way, they don't get shoved away/stolen that easily.

[zjdtmkhzt]

But don't the mulebots already have specific places marked by the beacons under the floor which determine where they load off stuff?
If you don't like those places, sounds like more of a mapping issue to me.

[Lord_earthfire]

But don't the mulebots already have specific places marked by the beacons under the floor which determine where they load off stuff?
If you don't like those places, sounds like more of a mapping issue to me.

Except for mulebot AI, i think this is a mapping issue in general. This means fixing this will be really hard and would require moving around many departments.

Mulebot beacons and belt hell pickup/drop-off points are kinda all over the place. Most departments don't really have a connection to the belt hell in general, which is a major problem for delivering goods via belts/bar-code-stickers.

Edit: Ahhhh, i see im replying a bit too much, should take myself back a bit, damnit.

[Kotlol]

It would be funny for the mulebot to get a "teleport" upgrade then. Insted of riding to it.. it will teleport to the spots and drop them off.

Infact if we gonna do a mulebot upgrade set, we should have:
- Able to carry more stuff.
- Able to read barcodes and drop them at the right spots on the mulebot.
- Able to throw off passangers.
- Able to install an "ordering" console so when ordered via Mulebot, it will immidently pick it up and bring it to the place of ordering? (abit too advanced I think)

I do think Mulebot is the 1st we should improve.

[zjdtmkhzt]

But don't the mulebots already have specific places marked by the beacons under the floor which determine where they load off stuff?
If you don't like those places, sounds like more of a mapping issue to me.

Except for mulebot AI, i think this is a mapping issue in general. This means fixing this will be really hard and would require moving around many departments.

Mulebot beacons and belt hell pickup/drop-off points are kinda all over the place. Most departments don't really have a connection to the belt hell in general, which is a major problem for delivering goods via belts/bar-code-stickers.

Edit: Ahhhh, i see im replying a bit too much, should take myself back a bit, damnit.

What are the issues with the mulebot AI? I wasn't aware of any, I thought it was fine since we fixed it to wait for doors to open.

[Wisemonster]

If we're talking about ways to improve the mulebots, I do have a couple of suggestions:
1. Have info about the mulebot's actions be sent to the QMs such as "Mulebot has delivered package to destination" or "Mulebot has gotta stuck, requesting assistance at [Location]", this info could either be in the mulebot pda app, or sent through a mailgroup (though qms already have some noisy mailgroups as is), or even through some new app
2. Make recharging their cells less annoying to perform. Not every station's cargo has a cell charger, meaning that recharging a mulebot's cell involves either getting engineering to make a cell charger in cargo, or going out to the mining outpost to scan and create one, both of which are somewhat timely to simply use standard department equipment.