Remove Security's access to the crematorium on RP

[Cleaverwolf]

Often on RP, security will often barge into the crematorium whenever they like to use it as they please, usually without asking the chaplain first or even saying anything to them. While this would be fine on classic, this is RP and I would expect at least a little bit interaction, and anyways the chaplain usually get ignored 99% of the time so making the station take them a little bit more seriously is good. Captain, AI, HOP (Correct me if I am wrong) and any cyborg can assist security if need be.

[Waffleloffle]

against it; it's pretty important for sec to have an option to kill a ling for good. making sec have to get someone to basically just hold the door and press the button for them isn't exactly quality interaction either, especially when they have an antag who is actively trying to kill them on their hands

[Silent Majority]

Considering its the most efficient and simple way to kill a ling, I'd rather the method not be removed to a job that might not be there. Personally, I think there should just be a cremator IN medical. It'd enable body disposal for medical antag soto.

[AgrippaHera]

I agree with this. Not only does this happen with lings, but I've experienced security using the crematorium against non-lings as well, entirely without the chaplain being involved. I think the crematorium, something that removes ALL evidence of a kill, most of the person's items, and the chance for a body to be recovered (Antags getting rescued from the morgue by other antags or mindhacks is a very fun thing when it happens.)

[Frolicsome Flufficorn]

I personally dont see the whole issue. why is crematorium that important?

Like literally on classic it never gets used since the far easier method is just to go to the crusher to dispose of antags.

That being said its very unlikely that a change like this would ever get added that changes access only on RP and not classic. Plus Assuming on RP it is as valuable a tool you say it is, why wouldn't security then just move to the crusher to dispose of antags and remove the possible interaction between the Chaplain and sec all together?

Obviously, this being said I dont play on RP so take what im saying with a grain of salt

[Lord_earthfire]

That being said its very unlikely that a change like this would ever get added that changes access only on RP and not classic.

Well, you're out of date, look what just got testmerged on RP:

https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/15833

But on topic: if security wants to dispose of lings, the crusher exists. And having such a powerfull tool be locked behind chaplain access makes sense, especially since it makes chaplain loot more valueable than it already was (sandals, bible, faith)

[AgrippaHera]

That being said its very unlikely that a change like this would ever get added that changes access only on RP and not classic. Plus Assuming on RP it is as valuable a tool you say it is, why wouldn't security then just move to the crusher to dispose of antags and remove the possible interaction between the Chaplain and sec all together?

Obviously, this being said I dont play on RP so take what im saying with a grain of salt

Security already has different access on RP, so it's not a brand new concept tbf. The crusher does exist, true, but I think all this will do is make security go: "Is there a chaplain?" and if there is none, then the grinder. The crematorium is the fastest and most reliable way of destroying a body entirely, so I think they would continue to pursue that if the option is available.

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against it; it's pretty important for sec to have an option to kill a ling for good. making sec have to get someone to basically just hold the door and press the button for them isn't exactly quality interaction either, especially when they have an antag who is actively trying to kill them on their hands

If the chaplain wants RP, it is a prompt for them to RP. Worst case, they can just open the door and head out. I've seen a good few chaplains who enjoy the process of holding a funeral for antags. As for the last point, security is expected to RP, just because Antags Exist doesn't mean they get to skip that step. (Especially since if they need to cremate a body, they have one less problem on their hands.)

[Silent Majority]

I agree with this. Not only does this happen with lings, but I've experienced security using the crematorium against non-lings as well, entirely without the chaplain being involved. I think the crematorium, something that removes ALL evidence of a kill, most of the person's items, and the chance for a body to be recovered (Antags getting rescued from the morgue by other antags or mindhacks is a very fun thing when it happens.)

So does the reclaimer. And the gibber. And grenades. And the crusher. And the shuttle.  And the elevator. This mostly sounds like before a chaplain could occasionally get rp with security. Now they won't get that since security will just use other methods. 

This is also adding a new mechanic of allowing chaplains to be obstructive. When they exist. [I just checked 1 3 and 4 before posting neither of which had a chaplain on].

I suppose I'm just confused to an argument for this that doesn't involve a personal bias. Its securities job to handle antagonists. This seems to be conflating a system to add an aditional step of allowing a civillian non command role to now be able have a say in executions.

I can only see this causing resentment.

[UrsulaMejor]

I think this would be a decent idea for both classic and rp

[Cal]

its very unlikely that a change like this would ever get added that changes access only on RP and not classic

Actually pretty trivial to do.

[Glamurio]

Not entirely against this, but I'm expecting that people will now rather toss a changeling into toxins and burn it with plasma than try and locate the chaplain. While I think in theory it's a good change to have to roleplay with a department to gain access, I think because of the time-critical nature of the changeling coming back to life this will turn into a frustrating experience on RP. This is almost the equivalent of not having silver cuffs on hand during werewolf rampages. I suppose as long as the captain still has acces and is around (which is not a given), it's fine.

[Cal]

I also don't see a point in this tbh

[Meggal Bozale]

I'm with this change, it's the chaplain's space and I don't see why security should have it. Honestly might as well do this on classic too, less difference in servers like that. (I don't doubt the doors would get hacked / windows smashed anyways, it's classic.)

Probably wouldn't even affect time to cremate lings/other antags, I imagine the crusher would just get used instead. Not like I like either action, but eh.

[Silent Majority]

Not entirely against this, but I'm expecting that people will now rather toss a changeling into toxins and burn it with plasma than try and locate the chaplain. While I think in theory it's a good change to have to roleplay with a department to gain access, I think because of the time-critical nature of the changeling coming back to life this will turn into a frustrating experience on RP. This is almost the equivalent of not having silver cuffs on hand during werewolf rampages. I suppose as long as the captain still has acces and is around (which is not a given), it's fine.

Lings can just chain stasis out of that. Because being completely burnt doesn't stop regen.

[Sord213]

I've never liked sec having pseudo AA on rp anyways, especially considering classic sec gets along just fine with their access levels. Classic sec has enough access to get their foot into departments but not into the inner areas. If they need to get in somewhere else they should ask someone nearby or the AI. I like criminals being able to have somewhere sec can't immediately access, and have better routes of escape. Closing the door on sec's face and fleeing out the back door is much better for stories than sec just barging in and arresting you, imo. The only reason sec on RP has near AA is from the lowpop RP days where a department might only have one person and there wouldn't be an AI. We don't have this issue anymore.