The current state of Salvagers

[RichardGere]

This concerns both the Salvagers gamemode and Salvagers spawned in midround. We had a discussion regarding this on the discord, the main takeaway being that early game Salvagers have little in the way of weapons to seriously contend with the crew (let alone sec). This doesn't apply to Salvagers spawned during the middle of a round since apparently they get more points (?). 

Any input or ideas regarding this topic are appreciated.

[Cheffie]

Yeah salvagers roundstart get a few hundred points each, pretty much always used for the juggernaut suit. Midrounds get a few thousand points to spend.
Much of the issue with salvagers comes from their weapon options and ammo being limited and expensive. At roundstart they start with slamguns and zipguns.

The slamguns start with scrapshot which is good damage but very cumbersome to use and riot slugs which are bad offensively since you need to sustain use them to be lethal but useful if you are running.
The zipguns start with 9mm fangible which is just awful unless you can pump someone with a lot of it doing a whopping 6 damage a shot and .22 rounds which are pretty average. The main issue with the zip being its RNG chance to explode and possibly tear your limbs off.

The weapons they can buy don't change much.
The upgraded zip holds one more round and jams instead of exploding, but jams more often and has little indicator it is jammed and if you try fire the 5.56 it explodes(?).
The salvaged shotgun is just an expensive and worse riot shotgun.
The survival rifle is a real commitment with its price costing over 2000 with the barrels. Its a very good weapon but it, the barrels and the ammo are too expensive to get anywhere other than the end of the round after grinding the whole time.
The Bradwen is probably the best since option since you can buy good 9mm rounds for it but unless it was changed you only get 4-5 rounds per purchase. The gun itself is still expensive but you can buy it with the midround points.

Though the issue with all of these weapons is they take about 20 minutes of grinding to get at least and then ammo is extra. They also suffer from a lack of ammo types unless its been changed recently they can only buy flares for their shotguns.

I think a reduction in cost of the weapons and ammo would benefit salvagers greatly maybe also give them some more lethal ammo from the start as well.

[Lord_earthfire]

What i found lacking on salvagers was melee weaponry.

The damage a crewmember has in melee is almost the same a salvager got. This makes going in melee with salvagers hardly an issue. It makes it even the preferred strategy, since salvagers are far better equipped for ranged combat.

I think they would greatly benefit from something like 25-30 brute damage melee weapons... maybe machetes/pirate sables?

[The]

it would be fitting if they had upgraded scrap weapons just like the upgraded zipgun that they get

[Mouse]

My opinion on salvagers is that deconstructing things into frames takes fucking forever, especially with the omnitool since changing the mode closes the deconstruct popup.  Just give them a special version that deconstructs anything without tool use.

Also I feel like they need more goals.

edit: also running back to the salvager ship to sell stuff is kind of boring, maybe have magic teleportation technology in the ore scoop

[Kotlol]

Why not have a "Transport Beacon" they have to load up onto a pod then deploy it near the station to sell for a quick "base setup"?

[Kotomata]

What i found lacking on salvagers was melee weaponry.

The damage a crewmember has in melee is almost the same a salvager got. This makes going in melee with salvagers hardly an issue. It makes it even the preferred strategy, since salvagers are far better equipped for ranged combat.

I think they would greatly benefit from something like 25-30 brute damage melee weapons... maybe machetes/pirate sables?

i feel obligated to mention that the arc welder salvagers can buy does 25 burn per hit when turned on (unless this was changed or removed recently)

[Lord_earthfire]

i feel obligated to mention that the arc welder salvagers can buy does 25 burn per hit when turned on (unless this was changed or removed recently)

Isn't that they one they start with? In that case i take my comment back completely.

[Kotlol]

i feel obligated to mention that the arc welder salvagers can buy does 25 burn per hit when turned on (unless this was changed or removed recently)

Isn't that they one they start with? In that case i  take my comment back completely.

No Arc welder and pirate sabers are REWARDS.

[brojob]

What i found lacking on salvagers was melee weaponry.

The damage a crewmember has in melee is almost the same a salvager got. This makes going in melee with salvagers hardly an issue. It makes it even the preferred strategy, since salvagers are far better equipped for ranged combat.

I think they would greatly benefit from something like 25-30 brute damage melee weapons... maybe machetes/pirate sables?

What if possibly they had their deconstruction device adjusted to a weapon/tool with more offensive purposes, depleting with combat and construction use and still retaining their handspun recharge? Personally, the largest issue I have with salvagers is they don't have a unique feel to their gameplay as an antag, rather you're just a syndicate staff assistant.

[Decarcassor]

Salvagers are in a bit of a weird spot. They don't need to interact with the station at all when grinding points, by just scrounging the debris and asteroids. Last time I played salv I could just turn in processed rocks for points, because its all abouty quantity not quality. And as its been pointed out, its much faster and convenient to peddle free asteroids chunks than to break in places and slowly deconstruct vending machines.

And then once you have grinded enough points to get the gear you want, you... Just go shoot peoples on the station because you can ? So what often happen with salvagers is that they spend 80% of the round time grinding gear in isolation and then show up at the end to cause gratuitous mayhem.

The coolest thing with salvagers right now is the dogfights. Because salvagers rely so much on their pods and space advantage, the crew has to go and fight them out there and its a really nice change of pace. Something truly unique to salvager rounds.

What I would like to see for salvagers is more focus on what make them unique and stand out and more reason to interact with the station early on.
More pod stuff ! A salvager armor that you can put a large pod. Salvage drills or arms to chew at the station. Jetpacks !

Key system station objectives for big points. Salvage the AI, the engine, comm dishes (would have to make the station dishes different from the debris ones) SMES units, cryo pods, etc... Important stuff that the station really need to function and is hard to replace. And yes make stealing appliances less tedious than the current multi + decon tool process. Salvagers should really just be able to use their special crank blowtorch thingy for that kind of stuff. For being the signature salvager tool it really doesn't get that much use.

[Meggal Bozale]

It would be very interesting to see salvagers tear up the station with pods. I always imagined salvagers being a threat to the station because when they would be "done with it", there'd be NO station left to stand on. gutted and torn to bits, sold to the highest bidder. I haven't seen salvs much if at all though, honestly. I'd like to see them more in rounds to get a solid opinion.

[Kotlol]

It would be very interesting to see salvagers tear up the station with pods. I always imagined salvagers being a threat to the station because when they would be "done with it", there'd be NO station left to stand on. gutted and torn to bits, sold to the highest bidder. I haven't seen salvs much if at all though, honestly. I'd like to see them more in rounds to get a solid opinion.

With pods, it basically becomes a rush job.
It won't be fun to fight salvagers in pods, since they salvage and the moment another pod comes to them they run and strike somewhere else.

The current form of salvagers is neat.. but far from perfect. They will most likely hit the radio station for some stuff then go to the station with some gear.

Wich is why I recommend the salvagers being able to set up a "base on site"
Where they can deposit their frames they stole into, without returning to the main base every time and going back.

But NOT via pods, since then it basically becomes a game of pacman.

[Meggal Bozale]

I can't agree with that, it's not so difficult to catch up with a pod, especially if you're smaller + have a better engine. Gives motivation to build pods in the first place, as well as giving a real use to the pod-seeking grenade's that is not people.

[Kotlol]

Really you want to devolve Scavengers into Pod wars but insted it's scavengers eating the station pacman style?
You know then it will devolve in: "Keep podbays safe at round starts"

Also scavenger pods can make very easy get aways and what you say they can do too with their pods.
If anything... it just becomes awful for people having to deal with breaches all day.