Werewolf and Wizard on RP Feedback

[Silent Majority]

Not sure where to post but this always seems a good place.

Werewolves feel extremely unsuited still. I saw this prior when we had werewolves an occasional admin thing, but Have seen it live now. werewolves walking around in werewolf form, feeding off monkey humans and people willingly letting them feed off them.

This feels like a shambler walking around in shambling form or vampires just feeding off people while others watched. I think there;'s a major issue with it since the ;werewolf' aspect of the werewolf makes them super super visible and its just...it feels like a suspension of disbelief thing if werewolves just wander around and people don't react and even DEFEND the werewolf.

On RP security usually tries to play dumb a little bit to let the antags have their fun before they face punishment. Walking around as a werewolf i feel should be the same as walking around as a shambler or in syndicate commando armor, but, at the same time, werewolves have no powers when not doing that.


wizards insofar are causing less issues from my observation. Wizards have alot of destructive ability, but wizards feel slightly less egregious then a giant lumbering werewolf just chatting in the bar while it eats a human.

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Suggestion secondairy that could help:

werewolf form werewolves shouldn't leave their fingerprints. they should leave 'bloody scratch marks' or 'smudged pawprints' or something.

[CalliopeSoups]

I think WWs are close to suiting RP, and that part of it right now is just the culture needs time to figure out how to treat them. I also don't think there is anything conceptually WRONG with a WW openly RPing in their WW form. What is wrong is people defending the WW etc as you mentioned, but if someone's legitimately RPing as a big scary wolf creature that can be distracted, tamed, bribed with food etc I think that's great. I support transformed WWs not leaving fingerprints, in whatever way that's implemented.

Wizards are causing less issues I agree. I think something that plays into it is just the inherant goofiness of a wizard, RP folk run with that and seem to get caught up in the jokes more than the violence sometimes. They're certainly not invincible, either.

[Dhaidburt]

I agree that these new antags feel weird, and I think that werewolves and wizards both have that similar feel: "I guess we're going to go along with this?"

My werewolf round, guy transformed in the middle of medbay, but since they weren't hurting anyone nothing happened. Everyone knew this guy was a werewolf, but didn't know what exactly to do in response (sec was already there cause roundstart). Very good werewolf player, things escalated over the round but I never lost that feeling of "how should I interact with this werewolf" even after spleens were eaten.

My only wizard round (latejoined) people were being turned into animals. Instead of freaking out, I went along with it. Not by volunteering of course, but just talking with em like normal. The RP side of that was fun, but I didn't get to do much as a doctor and just hung out at the bar for the most part.

[Lord_earthfire]

I think WWs are close to suiting RP, and that part of it right now is just the culture needs time to figure out how to treat them.

I feel.this way as well. Folks on RP are not used to how dangerous werewolves are (personally, i was mauled my first time yesterday in a fighting ring and was quite surprised HOW deadly they are). I think once folks figure it out, werewolfs running transformed in the open will get attscked and their occurrence will decline.

I also think they bring sonething good into RP. Shifts are very calm thr first 40+ minutes in, with many antags needing time to prepare or generate items/points (vampire, spief, changeling). Werewolfs and wizards dont need this and can bring chaos and action right into the round, which is seriously needed in RP.

[Frolicsome Flufficorn]

I find it surprising that RP players see Werewolf as more dangerous than wizard. on Classic Wizards are by far the most OP antagonist.

Like if you pick the right spells you are literally immortal and can do what you want. Like wizards are well known for being the most aggressive antags, as Most classic players use the phrase "theres no such thing as a friendly wizard". Basically wizards only ever go straight for kills, which is fine. but holy their abilities are unbalanced.

Idk, Just a observation. Since I never play on RP im guessing wizards are forced to interact more so in theory they shouldn't be the OP killing machines that they are in classic.

On classic friendly werewolfs are more common than aggressive ones with someone just walking around in werewolf form all round with people chasing it and petting it. Kinda sad as it just makes the round stale. Hmm maybe this parts a little off topic. However, If a werewolf is allowed to get 5+ feastings they become extremely hard to kill as their stamina regens faster then its used so you can infinite sprint and getting stunned is far harder.

I dont know, just thought I would give a insight onto what Werewolf and Wizard are like in classic. In general, they are rampage antags. and tend to get killed far more since the threat they pose is alot more than a changeling/vampire/arcfiend.

[Cleaverwolf]

Hi. I played Werewolf with the test-merge of Werewolves not having the scooby doo voice on RP and it most definitely is essentially if Werewolf is going to stick around on RP. It's sooooo much more easy to escalate and well, communicate.

Besides that note, while I do think they have great potential for being a fun and action-filled focal point of the round as was the case in my round, they also have great potential to just be... not that great. Even after I gutted one person and nearly killed another (which I will touch up on in a moment) there was still a couple people treating me like a small puppy dog which while cute, doesn't fit with werewolves well. Stealth as a werewolf is pretty difficult, obviously people will know there is a werewolf but your identity is likely to be figured out in a snap too. You leave plenty of DNA and you leave a pile of your identifiable possessions on the ground when you transform. You can theoretically plan ahead but when you have the scrutiny of everyone it doesn't spell well.
 It goes without saying but werewolves are strong. I found that during my fight I was holding back a fair amount, only hitting those who were trying to stun me just to disarm them, and not hitting them while they were down. I felt like if I was going hard I'd have the potential to nearly wipe security. It was fun, but it felt like a dilemma between getting my rampage in or avoiding being executed.

As for that great potential I mentioned, if you RP subtly being a werewolf and make your transformations meaningful and something you build up to, the RP and round flows nicely. You get to be the big bad that people feel nervous around, and it can create interesting situations especially if you are on a smaller station. Murder comes a lot easier too, at least for me, because I can signal to the crew that they need to get out of Dodge and being so strong gives you control. RP can be notoriously boring when the antagonists don't antagonize, werewolf is an easy tool to do so.

[Bartimeus]

In my opinion, the fact that people seem to be reacting calmly to openly transformed werewolves is likely due to the fact that their addition to RP is so recent. People aren't yet acclimated to how to react and some default to just treating them like big fluffy hug dolls. I believe that once the novelty of it has worn off and people get more comfortable with using the wolve's abilities, people should start fearing them more.

Once a few wolves have rocked the station in an RP-friendly way and left a strong impression on people i expect to see the way they are treated to shift slightly. A similar thing should happen with Wizards. Walking around as a werewolf is akin to walking in shambler form or having all weapons out as a traitor, and after some of these wolves make use of their strong abilities to take out a few people they'll likely be treated as the big threat that they are.

Wizards at the moment have been an overall nice surprise, with most wizards i've seen landing on station and claiming friendliness, only to slowly devolve into open agression after time has passed. I'd like to see a few more openly hostiles wizards from the get-go, but i'm sure there's a few of them out there and that more will come. I've also seen fun and diverse ways those wizards are behaving themselves which leads to amuzing situations and rounds feeling more varied.

The only change i'd like to see is a bit more of an incentive for werewolves to eat people. The RP hunger motive only being refilled if you eat humans was an elegant step, and if that doesn't prove to be sufficient then perhaps another mechanic could be added, like minor debuffs. Perhaps a werewolf that hasn't feasted in awhile and is in transformed werewolf form could unvoluntarily snarl, bite or slash nearby people on occasion. It'd be a unique interaction causing some bleed, a bit of damage and some flavor text. It wouldn't be particularly dangerous, but it'd set the tone for the werewolve's control of their lycanthropy slipping away without proper sustenance. Additionally it'd also deteriorate relations to the crew as the "cute puppy" slowly begins to bite the hand that feeds it, leading to a reduction of friendly wolves.

[Silent Majority]

We should also make it so transformed monkeys/npcs do not 'feed' a werewolf, same as other antags I feel.

[Kotlol]

We should also make it so transformed monkeys/npcs do not 'feed' a werewolf, same as other antags I feel.

Don't forget the Space Diner Patrons.
I do miss the days of a changeling feeding off Bill and then either go inside as Bill being shitty OR starting a BILL EPIDEMIC!

But I do agree... nerfing monkeys and the patrons makes more sense.

[Cleaverwolf]

We should also make it so transformed monkeys/npcs do not 'feed' a werewolf, same as other antags I feel.

Good news, it's already this way. Werewolves cannot feed on monkeys.

[Silent Majority]

We should also make it so transformed monkeys/npcs do not 'feed' a werewolf, same as other antags I feel.

Good news, it's already this way. Werewolves cannot feed on monkeys.

monkeys turned into humans they still can. they do it all the time.

[Glamurio]

I think WWs are close to suiting RP, and that part of it right now is just the culture needs time to figure out how to treat them. 

Big agree on this. Many people at first didn't know if it was the "new norm", or just an admin gimmick. I'm of the opinion once people acclimate, they'll be treated like any other antagonist, that meaning to *raises eyebrows* if they see them, but mostly ignore them unless they're openly hostile. A few people will make a fuss or assault them, in which case Security has to advise them not to, but not to defend the antag. And naturally, once the antag actually attacks, it's brig time or execution based on the damage.

Wizards, I feel, are even more fitting to RP, we already have many people playing "pretend wizard", which aren't treated any different. Again, the baseline here is whether or not the antag is being hostile, and if they are, react accordingly.

[Tarmunora]

We should also make it so transformed monkeys/npcs do not 'feed' a werewolf, same as other antags I feel.

Good news, it's already this way. Werewolves cannot feed on monkeys.

monkeys turned into humans they still can. they do it all the time.

Good catch - changed to blacklist all NPCs, a la changeling/etc.