Faustian Bargain Kit: A discussion

[Nerkson]

A unique devilish suitcase with three contracts, three demonic pens, and an evil lawyer suit (get it?). Simply click on someone with a contract while holding a demonic pen in your off-hand to complete a pact; people can voluntarily sign one by using a demonic pen on a contract. Anyone who signs a pact gains certain "benefits", like lots of mutations, fabulous wealth, or even Macho Man powers, depending on the contract; you can Examine each pact for clues on what it offers. Meanwhile, each pact signed makes your pen and briefcase hit harder and stun longer and raises your lawyer suit's melee & bullet protection.

- ss13 wiki


There was some discussion on the Discord, and I was encouraged to make a thread. While some of this applies to RP, other parts of it definitely apply to Standard as well.

Points I've read about and come to:

• Anyone savvy enough will know the contracts suck (and not sign them), and those not savvy enough will sign them (and be in for a learning experience and revenge), which leans into point 2...
  
• Asking people to sign it is a very loud indicator that screams "I'm a traitor! I'm valid!" at best, and at worst allows people to feed the antag. It' It's not fun to look for the vampire at round start and beg to be thralled. Its a very grey area on RP.
  

• As it stands, this 8 TC item is underwhelming. It leaves you with little other room to buy items, and is the Chaplains only unique Traitor item, with a shared item in the form of a bible thats just smaller.
  

• You can force people to sign contracts, but it takes forever and really only works on someone who's watching a computer monitor or is SSD.
  

• The soul mechanics are fine, with the pen stuns scaling nicely and the damage output being rather high, but you are prone to security/ random vigilantes taking your entire stash of items,  leaving you more or less bankrupt for the round and unable to finish the gimmick. Or they just kill you and then you're done anyways.
  

Some ideas for change (Not *all* ideas at once, but a list of potentials that can be by themselves or combined with others):

• Lowering the cost to 7 or 6 - At 7 it would let you buy a Sleepy Pen or a Chameleon Projector, which can definitely aide with obtaining contracts and/or running from the angry crew thats trying to send *you* to hell. At 6 it would open up the world to Revolvers, Emags, and Cloakers. Both options also let you buy more lower-tier TC items to have more fun - Duct Tape, Freedom Implants, or a crap ton of Microbombs. It's your world.
  
• Allow the contracts to be summoned and created at will. Less reliance on your vital gear being stolen.
  
• Lean in more to Devil Magic. Blood Circles, Organ eating, you name it. You're announcing to the crew you're evil from the start anyways.
  

It is worth noting that the Faustian kit is much stronger on the RP servers than it is the Standard servers, as people will usually let the antagonist have their fun for a bit and ramp up before poo hits the proverbial fan.

Let me know your thoughts, suggestions, comments.

[Kotlol]

In my opinion... Faustian chaplains need to go away as a "TRAITOR" class and become their own antagonist.

And insted of it being a CHAPLAIN only thing. Have it be anyone who wants to "bargain"

I don't hate the faustian chaplain, I love it alot on RP and on Classic it's "okay"
But I think chaplain traitors need something else.. more dark arts based then "sign this contract"

[jckrfc03]

i would like more chaplain traitor stuff as i do believe that faustian does just make the round boring, as sec will rarely confiscate the briefcase and it really confines you to one route as a traitor. Although i do think its pretty well balanced i havent seen it been used as much lately. its probably priced as such to avoid rampages with said sleepypen and i would say a majority of the time that people purchase faustian it doesnt get stolen and they have a good traitor round, and on the off chance it does usually people will help chap find the stash of items since crew want the funny contracts

[Frolicsome Flufficorn]

I dont think this could be further from the truth. On Classic the Faustian is by far one of the strongest kits. Like most of the time people let you do what you want, its extremely rare for a Faustian chaplain to be valid hunted. In fact Ive never seen one ben valid hunted unless they have been known to hand out intentional bad contracts or use the pen/briefcase in a negative way. People on classic are desperate to get a contract signed, Majority of the time a chaplain can just get people to sign it with little persuasion

The Faustian quite literally has some of the strongest gear, the Pen is 1: a Throw stun that scales with the contracts signed. 2: Does EXTREME bleed and can pretty much kill someone without much effort. 3: they arent a single item, as a Faustian chaplain you start with quite a few and can infinitely make them if you get enough souls. 4: and by far the strongest part is the Briefcase which does 80 stam dmg base and increasing dmg that does Stupid amounts of dmg and sets people on fire.

Then theres the contracts themselves which if you hand them out properly (give wrestler/vampire/Machoman contracts to fellow traitors) you can literlly give them items that are worth another traitor roll, stims or a wrestle belt with are worth 6-7 TC all included within the kit. Not to mention the contracts that are just fun to mess around with which is why alot of people seek them and to add to its lethality you can just lie to people and make them sign the instant kill contract since only you can read it.

Then on top of all of this the chaplain can summon the Horseman drone which despite having possibly the worst AI in history can force a shuttle call basically as soon as it spawns. Overall I see no reason why it would need a buff, like honestly. Its insane to me that people see this as a underpowered item.

Also I dont get this whole idea that on Classic people are like savage people who hate antagonists having fun, 80% of the time it just isnt the case and most people are extremely lenient on antagonists often giving them multiple chances and giving them back their items to continue their round.

Yeah thats about it. overall I dont see a need for a change for Faustian (except horseman drone AI, Please make it not dumb as hell)

[Decarcassor]

I dont think this could be further from the truth. On Classic the Faustian is by far one of the strongest kits. Like most of the time people let you do what you want, its extremely rare for a Faustian chaplain to be valid hunted. In fact Ive never seen one ben valid hunted unless they have been known to hand out intentional bad contracts or use the pen/briefcase in a negative way. People on classic are desperate to get a contract signed, Majority of the time a chaplain can just get people to sign it with little persuasion

Thats kind of the problem on classic. Its only strong because peoples let it happen, despite knowing full well what it is and does. And I'm not entirely sure why. Probably just as a break from monotony.

The idea of the faustian kit is fun, but the execution and current vibe is all wrong. Its not faustian, because the contracts are just objectively bad for you and not subtle in any way shape or form. You either find someone who is new and clueless, or just willing to enable the gimmick. Or I suppose you can just clobber peoples and force contract upon them, but if you are gonna do that, you might as well just rampage with more appropriate items.

I'm not sure there is any way to make the faustian kit really work without willing victims. All I know is that I'm never signing any contract ever again after I did it once, not thinking much of it and was rewarded by the chaplain summoning the damn horseman drone on my damn face minutes later.

[Silent Majority]

I've seen a few classic faustian rampages. they tend to just use a flash or something to start going and find another traitor to follow and contract people they're killing.

that said I feel the biggest issue of faustian is its an 'opt in' antag. On rp particularly, this can be super annoying. Especially because people often thing its made them into an antag themselves.

I don't know...exactly the best way to fix it. Its a very disruptive kit. I kind of wish it was more horseman themed and the contracts had themeing and equipment went to match.

[Kotlol]

I've seen  a few classic faustian rampages. they tend to just use a flash or something to start going and find another traitor to follow and contract people they're killing.

that said I feel the biggest issue of faustian is its an 'opt in' antag. On rp particularly, this can be super annoying. Especially because people often thing its made them into an antag themselves.

I don't know...exactly the best way to fix it. Its a very disruptive kit. I kind of wish it was more horseman themed and the contracts had themeing and equipment went to match.

This is why I want the faustian to be it's own antagonist. While I like it's concept as a traitor chaplain.
In my opnion.. it would be more fun if there was a chaplain to fight the faustian that restores people's souls and remove curses.
It gives the chaplain another thing to do in classic and RP.

If anything traitor chaplains shouldn't be "unholy" but needs a new kit as a traitor specifically. More "wrath of god" types.
Like crossbows, flintlocks and such. Smiting their foes as the holy person they are.

I like the chaos of the Faustian, but I feel like someone putting curses on people and being the only one who is suppose to remove them... removes counterplay.
Wich is why I believe Faustians need to be their own class and be detatched from the Chaplain.
Imagine if Faustians are (as I roleplay em) "Insurance Agents" and "Investors" or "Union Agents" in disguise.
And have a few more fun abillities besides contracts.