Make the morgue and Chaplain more useful by changing the bio matter reclaimer.

[Skye14]

Currently the morgue is really only a place to investigate mysterious deaths with an autopsy, and that very rarely happens, leading to the morgue being mostly useless because stuffing a corpse into the biomatter reclaimer is far better for the station and faster. To make the morgue more useful I suggest making the bio matter reclaimer only accept organs from people, not entire bodies. That way the morgue would be used for nearly every death, as a place to remove organs from corpses and store the leftover corpse husk. This would also give the Chaplain a lot more things to do, as disposing of the de-organed corpse would now be their job, leading to many more funerals and RP potential. Maybe make the total amount of biomatter you would get from taking out every single organ from a corpse more than you get currently from a single full corpse to balance out the effort vs reward.

[Kotlol]

"While" this is a good idea to add more use of the morgues and chapel...

This is once again an example of "Nerfing Medbay" to force interaction and using all of it's resources.
Wich in the past I condemn... and to this day I still do.

For one reason, be it RP or Classic... people tend to leave bodies around and not clear them. Making miasma piles.
Then you need someone on surgery duty for each death to extract every organ to even using the reclaimer.

So what do you think will happen from now on?
Round start:
-Genetics goes into the monkey cage.
-Doctors goes into the monkey cage.
-Both start grabbing monkeys.
- Possible monkey riot.
-Doctors start killing and disecting monkeys to fill the bio matter early.
-Genetics does their thing.
-Round goes on.

And the moment the bio matter tank is empty... thats when they start harvesting organs again. And thus "SLOW CLONING" proceeds.
That is unless the bio matter reclaimer only takes organs and it's instant, then we will see the round start being monkey organ harvesting and putting them into the cooling chest with the rest of the bio matter waste till they are needed.

And in the mean time the human bodies? They might get harvested, but most of the time... they will just strip each dead player (Wich becomes another hassle) and toss their bodies into disposals or burn them in the chapel. Cause we got a monkey supply now.

And if you nerf the monkey supply, it just means more work...

IN the end you just make medbay do more work to operate the cloner. Make it more messy.


As for increasing the bio matter for each organ put in individually? That's actually smart.
You can stuff it in the old way... but that takes time to process and gives less results.
But by extracting each organ and putting them into the reclaimer, thus getting more and the reclaimer doesn't go on cool down? Yes. That would be a good thing.
Cause now you are adding effort vs lazy.
Lazy doctors or doctors who can't find time to operate the cloner to the fullest capacity by extracting organs can STILL do their job, especially when it's code red.
But... when it's quieter or someone is digilent.. they can do organ harvest in the morgue.

This will also make "organ thieves" more fun to play since not every body has to be thrown into the reclaimer for gameplay reasons.
On classic some doctor can say: "Don't reclaim that body! I will extract it's organs and put it 1 by 1 to get more bio matter out of it."
And then it turned out to be an organ thief traitor.

[TDHooligan]

i think it's a cool idea actually. perhaps adjust the biomatter numbers to make this more sustainable (like brain + heart = 50% of a clone, the rest make up the other 50%)

then, make it so biomatter reserves instead carry like ~6 clones worth of goo rather than ~2. move the existing functionality to the emag, remove the shitty emag functionality right now (eating items? damn.)

getting more doctors more involved with risk-free surgery sounds like a really good idea for the newbies.

[Skye14]

"While" this is a good idea to add more use of the morgues and chapel...

This is once again an example of "Nerfing Medbay" to force interaction and using all of it's resources.
Wich in the past I condemn... and to this day I still do.

For one reason, be it RP or Classic... people tend to leave bodies around and not clear them. Making miasma piles.
Then you need someone on surgery duty for each death to extract every organ to even using the reclaimer.

So what do you think will happen from now on?
Round start:
-Genetics goes into the monkey cage.
-Doctors goes into the monkey cage.
-Both start grabbing monkeys.
- Possible monkey riot.
-Doctors start killing and disecting monkeys to fill the bio matter early.
-Genetics does their thing.
-Round goes on.

And the moment the bio matter tank is empty... thats when they start harvesting organs again. And thus "SLOW CLONING" proceeds.
That is unless the bio matter reclaimer only takes organs and it's instant, then we will see the round start being monkey organ harvesting and putting them into the cooling chest with the rest of the bio matter waste till they are needed.

And in the mean time the human bodies? They might get harvested, but most of the time... they will just strip each dead player (Wich becomes another hassle) and toss their bodies into disposals or burn them in the chapel. Cause we got a monkey supply now.

And if you nerf the monkey supply, it just means more work...

IN the end you just make medbay do more work to operate the cloner. Make it more messy.


As for increasing the bio matter for each organ put in individually? That's actually smart.
You can stuff it in the old way... but that takes time to process and gives less results.
But by extracting each organ and putting them into the reclaimer, thus getting more and the reclaimer doesn't go on cool down? Yes. That would be a good thing.
Cause now you are adding effort vs lazy.
Lazy doctors or doctors who can't find time to operate the cloner to the fullest capacity by extracting organs can STILL do their job, especially when it's code red.
But... when it's quieter or someone is digilent.. they can do organ harvest in the morgue.

This will also make "organ thieves" more fun to play since not every body has to be thrown into the reclaimer for gameplay reasons.
On classic some doctor can say: "Don't reclaim that body! I will extract it's organs and put it 1 by 1 to get more bio matter out of it."
And then it turned out to be an organ thief traitor.

I'm not a coder so I'm not sure if it's possible, but if it is then it would be better to make it so that only organs that specifically came from players could be used for the biomatter reclaimer so that monkey harvesting wouldn't be possible. I'm pretty sure organs already have the players name on them if you take them out of someone, so I don't think its impossible to do. I don't think this would be a big medbay nerf either, it would just mean that corpses would have to actually be processed before they could be used to reclaim bio matter, and as long as you have the bio matter you need then cloning would be mostly unaffected. Maybe give a slight increase to the amount of bio matter available at round start to compensate.

[Silent Majority]

Well...

What if organs could be ground down to a stemcell enriched super biogel then applied to give a modest *10 percent* chance of removing a cloning defect. And the mschine to do so was also in crematorium.

And the biogel could be used as a synthflesh standin. Now corpses are a resource for a potable commodity

The make the biogel juuuust inefficent enough to produce its a help not replacement.

[Skye14]

"While" this is a good idea to add more use of the morgues and chapel...

This is once again an example of "Nerfing Medbay" to force interaction and using all of it's resources.
Wich in the past I condemn... and to this day I still do.

For one reason, be it RP or Classic... people tend to leave bodies around and not clear them. Making miasma piles.
Then you need someone on surgery duty for each death to extract every organ to even using the reclaimer.

So what do you think will happen from now on?
Round start:
-Genetics goes into the monkey cage.
-Doctors goes into the monkey cage.
-Both start grabbing monkeys.
- Possible monkey riot.
-Doctors start killing and disecting monkeys to fill the bio matter early.
-Genetics does their thing.
-Round goes on.

And the moment the bio matter tank is empty... thats when they start harvesting organs again. And thus "SLOW CLONING" proceeds.
That is unless the bio matter reclaimer only takes organs and it's instant, then we will see the round start being monkey organ harvesting and putting them into the cooling chest with the rest of the bio matter waste till they are needed.

And in the mean time the human bodies? They might get harvested, but most of the time... they will just strip each dead player (Wich becomes another hassle) and toss their bodies into disposals or burn them in the chapel. Cause we got a monkey supply now.

And if you nerf the monkey supply, it just means more work...

IN the end you just make medbay do more work to operate the cloner. Make it more messy.


As for increasing the bio matter for each organ put in individually? That's actually smart.
You can stuff it in the old way... but that takes time to process and gives less results.
But by extracting each organ and putting them into the reclaimer, thus getting more and the reclaimer doesn't go on cool down? Yes. That would be a good thing.
Cause now you are adding effort vs lazy.
Lazy doctors or doctors who can't find time to operate the cloner to the fullest capacity by extracting organs can STILL do their job, especially when it's code red.
But... when it's quieter or someone is digilent.. they can do organ harvest in the morgue.

This will also make "organ thieves" more fun to play since not every body has to be thrown into the reclaimer for gameplay reasons.
On classic some doctor can say: "Don't reclaim that body! I will extract it's organs and put it 1 by 1 to get more bio matter out of it."
And then it turned out to be an organ thief traitor.

I have a lighter version of this idea that may work a bit better. The biomatter reclaimer would accept (player only) organs at a higher rate then stuffing in a full corpse, but that would still be possible. Instead of the biomatter reclaimer eating the corpse completely though, it would spit back out a depleted "husk" that no longer has any organs inside, that would be stored in the morgue until the Chaplain could deal with it. That way diligent doctors could harvest organs for better rates, while lazy ones could still stuff the corpse into the reclaimer whole for less efficient biomatter reclaiming. And Chaplain still gets more work to do!

[Soleil]

Huh, I actually find this like a really fun idea. Chaplains serve a role in the medical ecosystem by taking care of the bodies, giving them funerals or cremating them, while Medical uses the organs and blood for biomatter. Sure it'd make biomatter a little more of a chore but you can already max it out with blood or monkeys or botany synthflesh. You'd have to get the balance right so shifts with a chaotic Medbay and no Chaplain aren't hell, but otherwise this sounds great.

[Kotlol]

I'm not a coder so I'm not sure if it's possible, but if it is then it would be better to make it so that only organs that specifically came from players could be used for the biomatter reclaimer so that monkey harvesting wouldn't be possible. I'm pretty sure organs already have the players name on them if you take them out of someone, so I don't think its impossible to do. I don't think this would be a big medbay nerf either, it would just mean that corpses would have to actually be processed before they could be used to reclaim bio matter, and as long as you have the bio matter you need then cloning would be mostly unaffected. Maybe give a slight increase to the amount of bio matter available at round start to compensate.

I'll be honest and say this:
"NO HECKING FUCKING WAY!"

This is a HARD NERF for cloning. A TOO HARD NERF.

While your intention is to make the morgue more active.
What this tells us is: "Get rid of the bodies if you are an antagonist and it basicly wil perma kill anyone"

Do you know why early round clone scanning occurs or why security has DNA Disks? So they can be revived in case their bodies CANNOT be retrieved.
Your suggestion basicly would only allow 1-2 clones to come out of the cloner and then... "BIO MATTER NEEDED"
Or if the cloner gets stolen/blown up and replaced... "I need someone to give me their organs."

Sure this would indirectly give robotcists more work to do to replace organs with cyborg ones and botany to grow synth organs for replacements.
But it just means we go from "Practicing surgery on monkeys/dead people will give a BONUS to cloning" to...
"If we wanna keep cloning, we need to preform surgery every time."
And that pretty much makes the game way less fun as playing a doctor.

I'll say this... I prefer the idea of "Putting organs in" or "Doing something with dead people organs gives a bonus to cloning" then "Reclaimer rejects anything monkey or non harvested player organs."

As for @Silent Majority's suggestion. I don't mind this at all as it's just another fun step to make cloning more fun.

[Skye14]

I'm not a coder so I'm not sure if it's possible, but if it is then it would be better to make it so that only organs that specifically came from players could be used for the biomatter reclaimer so that monkey harvesting wouldn't be possible. I'm pretty sure organs already have the players name on them if you take them out of someone, so I don't think its impossible to do. I don't think this would be a big medbay nerf either, it would just mean that corpses would have to actually be processed before they could be used to reclaim bio matter, and as long as you have the bio matter you need then cloning would be mostly unaffected. Maybe give a slight increase to the amount of bio matter available at round start to compensate.

I'll be honest and say this:
"NO HECKING FUCKING WAY!"

This is a HARD NERF for cloning. A TOO HARD NERF.

While your intention is to make the morgue more active.
What this tells us is: "Get rid of the bodies if you are an antagonist and it basicly wil perma kill anyone"

Do you know why early round clone scanning occurs or why security has DNA Disks? So they can be revived in case their bodies CANNOT be retrieved.
Your suggestion basicly would only allow 1-2 clones to come out of the cloner and then... "BIO MATTER NEEDED"
Or if the cloner gets stolen/blown up and replaced... "I need someone to give me their organs."

Sure this would indirectly give robotcists more work to do to replace organs with cyborg ones and botany to grow synth organs for replacements.
But it just means we go from "Practicing surgery on monkeys/dead people will give a BONUS to cloning" to...
"If we wanna keep cloning, we need to preform surgery every time."
And that pretty much makes the game way less fun as playing a doctor.

I'll say this... I prefer the idea of "Putting organs in" or "Doing something with dead people organs gives a bonus to cloning" then "Reclaimer rejects anything monkey or non harvested player organs."

As for @Silent Majority's suggestion. I don't mind this at all as it's just another fun step to make cloning more fun.

Can you explain why this would be such a hard nerf? Can the biomatter reclaimer currently already accept monkey corpses or something? as far as I can tell the only change would be having to prep corpses, I don't see how this would limit the amount of available biomatter. Also, surgery on a dead person is very easy, I don't see it as an obstacle for cloning at all, just another small step. If you were in a rush you could probably harvest all organs in about 30 seconds if you know what you're doing.

If you can currently use monkeys to get biomatter then this would be a nerf, in which case my alternate idea may be better. Ill post it again here:
I have a lighter version of this idea that may work a bit better. The biomatter reclaimer would accept organs at a higher rate then stuffing in a full corpse, but that would still be possible. Instead of the biomatter reclaimer eating the corpse completely though, it would spit back out a depleted "husk" that no longer has any organs inside, that would be stored in the morgue until the Chaplain could deal with it. That way diligent doctors could harvest organs for better rates, while lazy ones could still stuff the corpse into the reclaimer whole for less efficient biomatter reclaiming. And Chaplain still gets more work to do!

[valtsu0]

I'm not a coder so I'm not sure if it's possible, but if it is then it would be better to make it so that only organs that specifically came from players could be used for the biomatter reclaimer so that monkey harvesting wouldn't be possible. I'm pretty sure organs already have the players name on them if you take them out of someone, so I don't think its impossible to do. I don't think this would be a big medbay nerf either, it would just mean that corpses would have to actually be processed before they could be used to reclaim bio matter, and as long as you have the bio matter you need then cloning would be mostly unaffected. Maybe give a slight increase to the amount of bio matter available at round start to compensate.

I'll be honest and say this:
"NO HECKING FUCKING WAY!"

This is a HARD NERF for cloning. A TOO HARD NERF.

While your intention is to make the morgue more active.
What this tells us is: "Get rid of the bodies if you are an antagonist and it basicly wil perma kill anyone"

Do you know why early round clone scanning occurs or why security has DNA Disks? So they can be revived in case their bodies CANNOT be retrieved.
Your suggestion basicly would only allow 1-2 clones to come out of the cloner and then... "BIO MATTER NEEDED"
Or if the cloner gets stolen/blown up and replaced... "I need someone to give me their organs."

Sure this would indirectly give robotcists more work to do to replace organs with cyborg ones and botany to grow synth organs for replacements.
But it just means we go from "Practicing surgery on monkeys/dead people will give a BONUS to cloning" to...
"If we wanna keep cloning, we need to preform surgery every time."
And that pretty much makes the game way less fun as playing a doctor.

I'll say this... I prefer the idea of "Putting organs in" or "Doing something with dead people organs gives a bonus to cloning" then "Reclaimer rejects anything monkey or non harvested player organs."

As for @Silent Majority's suggestion. I don't mind this at all as it's just another fun step to make cloning more fun.

Can you explain why this would be such a hard nerf? Can the biomatter reclaimer currently already accept monkey corpses or something? as far as I can tell the only change would be having to prep corpses, I don't see how this would limit the amount of available biomatter. Also, surgery on a dead person is very easy, I don't see it as an obstacle for cloning at all, just another small step. If you were in a rush you could probably harvest all organs in about 30 seconds if you know what you're doing.

If you can currently use monkeys to get biomatter then this would be a nerf, in which case my alternate idea may be better. Ill post it again here:
I have a lighter version of this idea that may work a bit better. The biomatter reclaimer would accept  organs at a higher rate then stuffing in a full corpse, but that would still be possible. Instead of the biomatter reclaimer eating the corpse completely though, it would spit back out a depleted "husk" that no longer has any organs inside, that would be stored in the morgue until the Chaplain could deal with it. That way diligent doctors could harvest organs for better rates, while lazy ones could still stuff the corpse into the reclaimer whole for less efficient biomatter reclaiming. And Chaplain still gets more work to do!

The reclaimer currently accepts everything from monkey corpses to steaks and viscerite (does it accept eggs?).

Not only would removing the ability to do that make disposing bodies overpowered for antags it would also make making a second secret cloning (possible with mindhack upgrade) too annoying.

[Kotlol]

Yes Monkeys can be used to for bio matter for cloning. Any "meat" can technically.
There is a storage cooler in morgue with organs but also gibs and such. You can use any of that for bio matter... clearly non of these are player/crew organs.

So this is why I been so opposed on it. You stop monkeys from being accepted? Nerf.
You allow their organs? STOCKPILING.

But yea your second suggestion here and how to implement it with silent majority's suggestion.. is a perfect side-grade.
Heck I would be fine with a tiny nerf with that stuffing a full corpse into the reclaimer only gives 90% of it's bio matter, where as doing all organs gives 120%

[Mouse]

The reclaimer accepts living monkeys, not just corpses.  Removing this would mean that no one could get the horse mask? aka the best mask in the game.

[Skye14]

The reclaimer accepts living monkeys, not just corpses.  Removing this would mean that no one could get the horse mask? aka the best mask in the game.

In my alternate idea the biomatter reclaimer could still accept bodies, it would just spit them back out after being de-organed by the machine, so you could still get the horse mask.

[Frank_Stein]

I really like the ideas behind this. Seems appropriate that upon death NT would cut their employees open to harvest the organs, and making that an SOP makes sense.

Maybe the reclaimer has a sort of filter that gets clogged. A whole body it needs to be emptied more often since there's bones and what not, but organs are all soft tissue and a purer supply of material.

Like high and low pulp orange juice

[Kotlol]

I really like the ideas behind this. Seems appropriate that upon death NT would cut their employees open to harvest the organs, and making that an SOP makes sense.

Maybe the reclaimer has a sort of filter that gets clogged. A whole body it needs to be emptied more often since there's bones and what not, but organs are all soft tissue and a purer supply of material.

Like high and low pulp orange juice

Wouldn't be a bad mechanic that constantly putting in bodies will "clog" the reclaimer at one point or a random moment and an engineer has to fix it.
Similiarly to using the mining magnet when it's not on cooldown damages it.