Thoughts on demotion/clothing swapouts by Security

[FlameArrow57]

Note: Here, demotion is meaning you, at the very least, swapout a person's headset and ID to staff assistant gear, or also clothing to staff assistant clothing

A while ago there was a change that allowed for easier demotion. Previously, headsets could only be obtained from lockers which would make replacing headsets for people with a headset they shouldn't have a lot more difficult. The change allowed for civilian headsets to be printed at the uniform manufacturer, so Security could go to the HoP's office to get one.

Though, an issue with demotion right is still the tediousness of it. To brig someone who needs to be demoted too, it requires doing a full search of them, as well as doing a clothing swap out by getting gear from the HoP's office. This takes even longer if there is just one person doing the process (quickest would be two people, one to search and one to grab the clothing from the HoP's office), or there are issues with grabbing clothing, a headset, or an ID from the HoP's, such as if AI/command are not available. A lot of the time after doing a demotion, it feels awkward brigging someone because of the time it's already taken.

Making demotion/clothing swapouts faster would make the person held for less time and free up Security for other things. 

Maybe there's other ideas, but I wanted to propose one, which I wanted to PR if it sounds good-

Basic idea would be a "standard outfit dispenser" for Security departments. This is a dispenser like prescription glasses and Cairngorm barricade dispensers. This can only be used by those wearing a Security ID. Upon using it, it dispenses at the very least a box containing a civilian headset and a new type of ID card, a template ID card. More could be a civilian jumpsuit, standard shoes, a backpack, and a staff assistant PDA. There's only a limited number of these boxes. The main purpose would be to reduce the demotion time involved in brigging someone.

The template ID is meant to be swiped on someone's existing ID, acting sort of like an agent card, where it will copy over the name, but it will only maintain Staff Assistant access. The original ID will be unaffected.

With this, it would hopefully make it faster to change out someone's outfit, or what needs to be changed out at least, without making it too easy, as well as still preserving everything the person had previously if they want to try to get it back later (mostly talking about the ID). It would also just be more of a Security oriented thing specifically for demotion reasons, so that it wouldn't interfere with the HoP's job, without providing an easily stealable or infinite supply of standard clothing. It would also be a change that would be most reasonable mapping-wise I think.

Wondering on thoughts for if demotion needs to be made any faster? Is something like this really needed? Should demotion take some time? Anything good/bad about the proposed idea?

[nefarious6th]

biggest question I think (which i have no bearing on) is how much of a part of the role of HoP people think demoting IDs is.

otherwise, I think this is great! I never liked holding someone for so long in the brig and then to take their stuff and get the new stuff settled; taking them down to HoP or leaving them in the brig, making it a prolonged thing, it just was always uncomfortable. demoting feels strong enough as a consequence, it's best to not then eat up people's time and give them the chance to still get back out there and do some things with the rest of their round.

also I know that in the process of demoting, officers will often forget this or that bit and bob of re-equipping people, through no real fault of anyone. Someone doesnt know where the spare PDA box is, someone forgot to grab a backpack, someone forgot shoes (!). It'd be nice not just as a courtesy to whoever's being demoted, but as an officer or command too. since all these things other than PDAs can be infinitely produced at fabs given enough mats, I dont think having a few pre-assembled kits secoffs can dispense will over-inflate the backpack economy.

[Bisar]

In my experience, Security is very happy with trying to levy demotion as a penalty for crime(s), and they often do it without consulting the Captain. Demoting someone totally screws all their access for the entire round. Not a fan of this idea.

[Kotlol]

While I do a lot of detectiving , I can say like Bisar.. this is kinda annoying to do.

While I do think security should have an easier time DEMOTING SOMEONE.
And I think HoP's would be happy you have "Standard IDs" ready for demoting.
I don't think we should implement it.

I do agree that security having "Fresh civilian clothes" is an Okay as is an empty backpack.
Not only cause it's just easier to give someone something you know doesn't have contraband, but ALSO for security OPs where they go civilian mode aka incognito.
Or having it so they can change out of shift to hit the bar.

So I am A-okay with security having "Civilian clothing" in their department too. I am not Okay with the ID system addition nor headset ones.
THOUGH I think the HoP should have an easier time getting the right headsets, IDs and PDAs!

[Lord_earthfire]

I think security should not demote. That's the job of command. I would only add a dispenser like this to the bridge, locked by command access.

In general, we kinda got the problem of security overruling most of command and hsving more authority over the rest of the crew. While this is a completely different cultural issue, we really should not enforce it.

[CalliopeSoups]

Demotion is absoultely good and a valuable form of punishment. It's one of my favourites because it's non-lethal, often funny and is punishing without being TOO punishing. Someone could end up demoted and still have traitor items hidden on them, or TC to spare. The most impact it has is now you might be removed from the place you did your starting job in, and you now have to break into places or ask/get access for a different job. Janitor is a GREAT one to ask for as it's a low perceived threat and a funny punishment job but comes with decent access.

I think it's okay for security to demote if it's needed, but on RP I would encourage speaking to command first, which usually happens as a base officer can't actually demote someone. It's often the HoP, HoS or Captain doing it, which is as it should be depending on the situation, so it seems fine to me right now.

[popetipap]

How about a walk in booth like the gene booth that swaps your uniform and backpack, possibly headset aswell, and then spits out the old stuff either in the HoP office or just next to the booth

Would likely be located outside HoP

Booths controls would be operate by the HoP

Contents of pockets and backpack would/should stay the shame

[Lord_earthfire]

[...] which usually happens as a base officer can't actually demote someone. It's often the HoP, HoS or Captain doing it, which is as it should be depending on the situation, so it seems fine to me right now.

Yeah, thats what i think should be kept as standard. I got no issues with security asking command to do it and they pull through on it. I just don't think they should be able to do it without command.

[Kotlol]

How about a walk in booth like the gene booth that swaps your uniform and backpack, possibly headset aswell, and then spits out the old stuff either in the HoP office or just next to the booth

Big fat NO. That's over doing it.

And yes COMMAND should be able to issue these demotions/firing ALONE. Security may only SUGGEST IT.

That said having "Civilian" clothing in Security OR in HOP is fine by me.

[FlameArrow57]

In my experience, Security is very happy with trying to levy demotion as a penalty for crime(s), and they often do it without consulting the Captain. Demoting someone totally screws all their access for the entire round. Not a fan of this idea.

Within a single round it doesn't happen a lot, if at all, and it wouldn't stop someone from still going to the HoP's. Someone is still welcome to go back to the HoP's if someone is there to get their ID changed to a department they want, unless they were removed from that department for security reasons.

Otherwise though, there would just be a few of these, not a lot, in the dispenser, to discourage doing it more than necessary.

---

I do agree that security having "Fresh civilian clothes" is an Okay as is an empty backpack.
Not only cause it's just easier to give someone something you know doesn't have contraband, but ALSO for security OPs where they go civilian mode aka incognito.
Or having it so they can change out of shift to hit the bar.

So I am A-okay with security having "Civilian clothing" in their department too. I am not Okay with the ID system addition nor headset ones.
THOUGH I think the HoP should have an easier time getting the right headsets, IDs and PDAs!

This would be just for demotion reasons for making it faster, if a security member is wanting to switch to civilian clothing I think it'd really be best if they went to the HoP's or find another clothing manufacturer, which nothing is stopping them from doing

I think security should not demote. That's the job of command. I would only add a dispenser like this to the bridge, locked by command access.

In general, we kinda got the problem of security overruling most of command and hsving more authority over the rest of the crew. While this is a completely different cultural issue, we really should not enforce it.

Maybe I didn't consider RP as much, but at least on classic if there's a traitor captain using their access and headset to avoid security and do things like rogue the AI, or someone using AA they have to do other bad things, regardless of command giving input you'd want to demote them. Demotion in this case isn't restricted to just existing command members but also crew who have access/headset/etc that they shouldn't have

How about a walk in booth like the gene booth that swaps your uniform and backpack, possibly headset aswell, and then spits out the old stuff either in the HoP office or just next to the booth

Would likely be located outside HoP

Booths controls would be operate by the HoP

Contents of pockets and backpack would/should stay the shame

Agreed that would be nice, but I think it maybe runs into the issue of it being 'too easy'. Also, by having it located by the HoP it doesn't resolve the issue that's intended to be solved, which is something within the security department to make demotions quicker.

[Silent Majority]

I would like if the hop had a vendor that spat out an id, and a janitor/clown/staffie uniform and basic equipment