Gas Mask Debuff Discussion

[colossusqw]

This is pretty much what the title says. From an RP player perspective, i see so many people running around with gas masks all the time, from assistants to captains, not just in situations where one would be needed but all the time. While i don't think it's bad for one to like the aesthetics and look of the item, it does bother me how much of a universal buff it is. They block all inhaled smoke and hide ones identity completely, at the cost of a small amount of view tint that can be disabled in the configs.

            This can pose issues, mainly to completely invalidade a lot of chemical smoke's effects. It's a hard thing to try and build up to a smoke bomb with anything but cyanide and saxitoxin in it on RP if everyone has a gas mask and will just completely shrug it off. The same can be said on the other side of the situation, where scientists that already start with gas masks can just be completely safe from smoke through the whole round with no downsides whatsoever.

            For me, the way to balance gas masks would be similar to how bio suits were balanced, by adding SOME(even if minor) debuff to them. Because as it stands gas masks are a complete buff that is extremely easy to get your hands on and has no catch whatsoever.
Some ideas for possible ways to add a counter effect to balance them i had were:

  - Make your screen foggy or limit your vision if you are low on stamina.
  - Reduce your stamina regen slightly when worn(2).
  - Give a view reduction overlay, akin to welding masks but with twice the view range as to not be as punishing.

Implementing all of these at once would be way too much, but i'd like to know which of them makes the most sense, or what any other counterbalance option you folks could give. 

[Shiiba]

Give them filters >:'3

[colossusqw]

Give them filters >:'3

This seems interesting, it'd allow for the people who want the aesthetics of the gas mask to go unbothered while giving those who would actually use them a limited resource to manage.

[RelentlessGarbage]

The stamina regeneration debuff makes some sense, although I'd have it apply only when you're not on internals. If you're breathing from internals, gas is going directly to your face from your gas tank, but otherwise you have to suck it through the filters, which is much more difficult than breathing unobstructed (if high-grade face masks are anything to go off of). If not a stamina regen debuff, perhaps a debuff how quickly you recover from OXY damage when in a breathable atmosphere would be good (kind of like the pug mutantrace).

I'd also be interested in seeing a fab-made enhanced breath mask/face visor that gave the chemical protection that gas masks give while not masking your identity. Certain situations practically mandate that you have a gas mask for your own safety (i.e. walking through suspicious clouds of chemsmoke trying to get to escape), but gas masks get poached pretty early on in the round. Maybe a transparent sealed face shield that didn't give view tinting, but only protected you from atmospheric chemicals if you have internals on (since they would have no filters of their own). Given the meta-assumption that anyone wearing a gas mask is an antag/up to no good, crewmembers that wore these could safely navigate chemsmoke while drawing less suspicion, and with the caveat that they'd have to be on internals the whole time.

[Frank_Stein]

Make all your speech in the mask garbled

[RelentlessGarbage]

Make all your speech in the mask garbled

I like this, if only because it would force firefighters with gasmasks to pantomime their communications to one-another and the crew, like equipment-enforced mimery. It wouldn't be a severe punishment to all of the traitors/antags that don't say a word the entire round, though.

[colossusqw]

Make all your speech in the mask garbled

I like this, if only because it would force firefighters with gasmasks to pantomime their communications to one-another and the crew, like equipment-enforced mimery. It wouldn't be a severe punishment to all of the traitors/antags that don't say a word the entire round, though.

Agreed. It seems like a comedic idea but i feel like it could make the problem worse.

[Kotlol]

I was gonna suggest something but most these ideas are either what I was thinking of or better.. but IT WONT STOP ME!.

So here's another one.
Wearing a mask for too long, will start making you breath harder. After 5ish mins, you will start gasping sometimes and taking O2 damage every 5 seconds. You will heal it fine though... but that Gas Mask has a lot of CO2 now..
Thus you take "Organ Damage"

[NOOT]

Make wearing sunnies, sechuds, thermals or NVGs not work when wearing any full face covering masks. Questionably VISORs and prescription glasses too. Alternatively, make wearing them possible, but any melee attacks directed towards the head have a chance to know said eyewear off, as it is worn over the mask rather than underneath it.

(outside of making gas masks slightly more unwealdy, this would help the issue of invisible sunnies under masks, or invisible thermals. If you want your sunnies and a false identity, go and find a face covering headgear and suffer the slowdown from it, or buy the specific traitor items that facilitate this).

[Lord_earthfire]

Honestly, this is more a merf to antags than anyone else. Because while it maybe hits some secoffs, it will always hit antags that prepare.

Do antags in general need a nerf? No, not really.

For smoke warfare, there is skin-pen smoke. And smoke already is the most superior delivery method chemistry has to offer.
Foam could be a vaible alternative. Just need sone better chems for it to work, really.

[Kotlol]

Honestly, this is more a merf to antags than anyone else. Because while it maybe hits some secoffs, it will always hit antags that prepare.

Do antags in general need a nerf? No, not really.

For smoke warfare, there is skin-pen smoke. And smoke already is the most superior delivery method chemistry has to offer.
Foam could be a vaible alternative.  Just need sone better chems for it to work, really.

Basically the nerf to gas masks needs to be for those who wear them for extended periods of time.
Science for one wears them all shift and therefor are untouchable by gas attacks.

It's also more benefical for all players to just snag a gas mask and wear it all game. Not just antags.

There is just no deterant for sec to not all wear gas masks all the time. Unlike internals where you have to keep an O2 tank on you at all times.
Gas masks filter out most chems without having to wear an O2 tank and if there is no air, you can wear an O2 tank as well.

[Lord_earthfire]

Basically the nerf to gas masks needs to be for those who wear them for extended periods of time.

Yeah, thats the first point i explicitely disagree with. Antags do the same and more common than sec and staffies. To conceal their identity. Especially if they use an Agent Card. And they really don't need additional inventory management.

The second point is that smoke powder doesn't need a buff by making less people run around with gas masks. Smoke mixes can be highly deadly with very low effort. So having an outright counter like sunglasses against flashes sound right.

We could reduce the avaibility of gas masks, though.

[colossusqw]

Basically the nerf to gas masks needs to be for those who wear them for extended periods of time.

Yeah, thats the first point i explicitely disagree with. Antags do the same and more common than sec and staffies. To conceal their identity. Especially if they use an Agent Card. And they really don't need additional inventory management.

The second point is that smoke powder doesn't need a buff by making less people run around with gas masks. Smoke mixes can be highly deadly with very low effort. So having an outright counter like sunglasses against flashes sound right.

We could reduce the avaibility of gas masks, though.

To be honest i don't think this would really "buff smoke powder", especially considering the best and most lethal chems that can be useful in small amounts(ie the ones that are best for smoke) are already the skinpen ones, if anything this would make it so you see more of the wackier and less viable chems and poisons around. As for gas mask usage, i see much more just random people running around with them than antags, i play mostly on RP to be fair, but the few dozen times i've been to heisenbee i wasn't really any different..

[Lord_earthfire]

Just keep in mind that antags who use smoke does need it to wear the gas mask for quite some time. Besides, sone very important chems for smoke (e.g. capsaicin) are non-skin pen, for important reason.

[KikiMofo]

I personally don't think gas masks need any "nerf".
If they must be then the only suggestion I would say is just make them rarer but people who always wear gas masks are still going to get them and wear them no matter what.